1. GS Requirements for Raids

    Hi All, I'm a returning player. Last time I played was like 7-8 years ago so you can treat me new to the game again. I've been reading and watching a lot of videos/guide for certain raids, I just wanted to know the "Gear score" requirements for the raids I see on Global chat?

    TOC 10
    TOC 25
    ICC 10
    ICC 25
    VOA 10
    VOA 25

    and any other raids that I'm not aware of?

    Thanks!

  2. Each pug will ask different gear, generally idea is so everyone is enough overgeared so they can brainlessly nuke down the bosses.

    But for raid to be "doable in comfort" what you need is previous "tier" average gear.

    First tier - drops 200 - 226 item level (you need 180ilvl gear approx to start to kill some bosses)
    Heroic Dungeons
    Naxxaramas
    Obsidian Sanctum
    Eye of Eternity

    Second tier - drops 219 - 245 item level (you need 200ilvl ger approx to start to kill some bosses)
    Ulduar

    Third tier - 232 - 271 item level (you need something like 219ilvl approx to start to kill some bosses)
    Trial of Crusader
    Onixia's Lair

    Fourth tier - 251 - 284 item level (you need 232ilvl approx to start to kill some bosses)
    Icecrown Citadel
    Ruby Sanctum

    By no means you can reach mximum ilvl on items as average in each tier, for example there are only few 232ilvl in Ulduar and one 245ilvl(valanyr legendary), same concept goes for next tears.

    Lets say in "gierscoore" terms, something approximate to:
    TOC - 4.6k - 4.8k
    ICC - 5.0k - 5.2k

    VOA - there are 4 bosses representing each tier, but everyone is after the last one, so usually people ask at least 5k gs, but if everyone knows what to do it's killable with waaay lower gear.

    There are players out there who can probably do any raid with bare minimum numbers to not get oneshotted and fill the dps exactly for enrage timers. Enjoy the challenge.

    "bUt this rAiD is DoabLe with "ThiS" gEaR" for pug leaders is a hard pass, wont get you anywhere. Try doing TOC10 every week with 4.8k gs players, few times stars will align and everyone will know what to do and it will be success, but most of the time it will be spectacle with headless chickens running everywhere on first boss already.

    TL:DR
    You need as much "gierscore" as raid leader asks.
    If you want all the gierscore crap not to matter, join a guild where everyone knows(learns) what to do. Otherwise be ready to have gear way above what that raid can even drop, that's perfect pug logic and makes 100% sense.

    I guess more practical way to look at this:
    grind EoT, buy T9 set, get offset pieces from fos/pos/hor Normal and Heroic, get whatever you are missing for EoT and you are good to go foll TOC and at least few quarters of ICC.
    Edited: December 22, 2020

  3. Values based on what they ask on global. In truth, all these numbers should be about 200 GS lower.
    Values may change by 200 GS, depending how "easy / long" raid the leader wants.

    TOC 10 4.8K - 5K
    TOC 25 5.2K - 5.5K
    ICC 10 5.5K - 5.8K ("Alt" runs 5.4K)
    ICC 25 5.8K - 6K ("Alt" runs 5.5K)
    VOA 10 5K
    VOA 25 5.4K
    Ony 10 5K
    Ony 25 5.4K

  4. I must say, angrylol desribed everything in full detail and with great accuracy. My props to him.

    In this post, I'd like to share my experience as a former Icecrown and a current Frostmourne player:

    JOIN A GUILD ASAP! I can't stress this enough. Try to avoid pug raids, because most of the time you will play with a bunch of rabble and you will lose a lot of time with little to no progress. By saying this, I don't want to generalise all pug raids and call them bad, but in the good ones the raid leaders will typically inspect other players and will demand to see an achievement and good gear (as a safety measurement, that the person in question can pull his own weight). So, even if you have played on another server and you know the fights inside out, there's a big chance that you won't be invited in the second group and you will have to stick with the first type. Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily mean, that it's going to fail, but you have to rely on luck that the group will end up being decent. Either that or inspect other players and see whether the RL invited others just to fill the group quicker.

    Back on Icecrown, from all of the ICC 10 and 25 pug runs I joined I had only one fully cleared raid from each category and that was thanks to me having the Kingslayer achievements in the first place. In all of my other raids, the most common issues were:
    - players failing mechanics, which led to a lot of wipes and a raid over at the end;
    - players randomly going afk or taking bio breaks between pulls, which led to a lot of time being wasted and some people rage quiting because of it;
    - players leaving halfway through the raid due to suddenly not having enough time to continue playing further, which led to a lot of time being wasted in finding replacements and sometimes even causing a RO because of it;
    - loot issues in rare cases - someone wanted to obtain X from Y, they stood for that encounter and left the raid afterwards. Either that or someone rage quit because he didn't obtain a certain item.

    Most of my ICC raids ended on PP. At one point I became infuriated by the lack of progression and I decided to join a progression guild. Words can't describe how much my raiding experience improved since then. Not only was I able to do full clears, but I also got included in dynamic and full heroic raids and I got to explore the rest of the endgame content.

    Point is - if you have the option to do some raids with a guild, do it. Join pug raids only when you really, really, really need to obtain some items to meet that guild's gs requirements. In that case you can do what angrylol suggested - farm fos, pos, hor, EoT (from rdf hc) and EoF (from 1st rdf hc, weekly quests). You can also buy items from the vote shop and BoEs from the ah. Most progression guilds require a minimum amount of 5.5k-5.8k (some slightly more hardcore guilds will only accept 6k-6.2k+ players). If you are in the mood for pug raiding and you set your expectations low, here's a list of instances and the needed gs:


    Raid/Server Icecrown Frostmourne
    Ony 10 5k 4.3k-4.5k
    Ony 25 5.2k 4.5k-4.7k
    ToC 10 5k 4.4k-4.5k
    ToC 25 5.4k-5.6k 4.8k-5k
    ICC 10 (full nm) 5.4k-5.5k N/A
    ICC 25 (full nm) 5.5k-5.8k N/A
    VoA 10 (Frost giant) 5k-5.2k N/A
    VoA 25 (Frost giant) 5.3k-5.5k N/A

    I've also included FM, in order to show the differences between the two realms. I don't know whether "gear inflation" is a good term to describe the situation on Icecrown, but this is the word I want to use, in order to show you that the GS is a subjective criteria. As angrylol said, if people know how to play properly (know boss tactics and their classes), the needed GS is waaaaaaaaay lower than what I've written here. For example, my former Icecrown Guild Master told me, that the minimum GS for ICC 10 was 4.8k if EVERYONE knew what to do. So, that's why my personal advice is to find a guild, that is able to bring you in raids. Gruns are also accompanied by discord, which further improves the coordination between players and with that it increases the chances for success.
    Edited: December 26, 2020

  5. When you need 5k GS for Onyxia10, lul

  6. When you need 5k GS for Onyxia10, lul
    On this server people don't even understand the basic tactics for a dragon boss, so yeah.
    I did Ony last week and the raid wiped 3 times because a 6.2K hunter pulled without MD, 1/3 of the DPS stood behind the boss and got kicked into the whelps and the LoD tank didn't know how to position the boss. So they started asking for only 5.8K people xD

    Who needs tactics, skill or brain, just out-gear it bro...

  7. Thank you everyone for your replies will definitely check your suggestions out.

    Also last question. Can we spam POS/FOS heroic? or only doable once a day?

  8. Any heroic dungeon is doable once a day, except situation when you've visited ALL dungeons and go to RDF. But depending from class, you'll be able to get lots of gear even from 1 day of clearing

  9. Any heroic dungeon is doable once a day, except situation when you've visited ALL dungeons and go to RDF. But depending from class, you'll be able to get lots of gear even from 1 day of clearing
    Thank you!

  10. Gear requirements for raids are often extremely, absurdly exaggerated.

    People want you to have 5k gs to raid Ony 10. Ony 10 gives you 232 ilvl gear, if you fully equip yourself with this gear, you'll be at 4800 gs.

    Icc 10 gives you 251 ilvl gear, if you fully equip yourself with this gear, you'll be at 5400 gs. The same amount people want you to have to go there.

    This is absurd, isn't it? In order to go to a raid, people want you to have gs that equals to or even exceeds gear that you are going to get from that raid in the first place. This is insane.

  11. This is absurd, isn't it? In order to go to a raid, people want you to have gs that equals to or even exceeds gear that you are going to get from that raid in the first place. This is insane.
    On surface it may seem so, but when you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

    People who spend a few hours reading and learning simply join other people who do the same(GUILDS). Whats left is clueless, rejects and ferals, you can't expect them to be proficient, so they ask way more gear to compensate. You get a good pug when coincidence brings those few guildless(for other reasons then above) people who know what to do.

  12. On surface it may seem so, but when you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

    People who spend a few hours reading and learning simply join other people who do the same(GUILDS). Whats left is clueless, rejects and ferals, you can't expect them to be proficient, so they ask way more gear to compensate. You get a good pug when coincidence brings those few guildless(for other reasons then above) people who know what to do.
    But how are people supposed to have a gear that's actually better than the gear they are going after to the raid in the first place? That's impossible. Like when you need 5k gs to go to Ony 10 which gives you 4.8k gs.

    And people who actually have this gear usually don't have the reason to go there at all. Why would they? They already have better gear than the gear this raid can offer.

  13. But how are people supposed to have a gear that's actually better than the gear they are going after to the raid in the first place?
    I might be rude here, but pugs are practically a trash container with things nobody wants, only difference is that everybody starts there. They will spam their 6k gs requirements for OS weekly quest forever, you cant change that. Ladder to climb out of it is guides and learning stuff about your class/tactics/raids/game, finding and playing with people of similar interests.

    It's pretty much an illusion for new players, they see chats of people making pugs and think that's the game, they don't realize they are in the trash bin, so they never try to climb out of it.

    Pretty cynical, but I guess that's the way I can describe it best.

  14. I just noticed Almost all people run ICC or VOA. I checked AtlastlootFU it seems like Eye of Eternity, Onyxia, Naxx, Ruby Sanctum, Obsidian Sanctum are also valiable on reaching higher ilvl gears, no one runs them?

  15. Because you can pretty much skip them. with T9 and EoT stuff, some boe's, some nice icc dungeon heroic items and maybe something for Points - you are ready to start to farm ICC.

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