Q_Q

[Breadqt]

every single BG is riddled with premades, it is impossible to enjoy warmane recently, between WG being ruined by MBXers, Arena being ruined by full bis scripters, and BG's ruined by premades, what the **** else is there to do?

i have played 14 random BG's tonight and every single game had atleast 1 premade of 5+

there is literally no way for me to enjoy solo pvp as a casual player. every facet has been robbed of all enjoyment by the playerbase.

Q_Q

[Evangelion]

You can enjoy them, just not if you're in bis bracket... I guess... Make a char on Blackrock and play on it (don't upgrade any item to Wrathful, just play with starting stuff) and you should be able to avoid bis bracket completely thus in return also avoid premades.

[MileR88]

You can enjoy them, just not if you're in bis bracket... I guess... Make a char on Blackrock and play on it (don't upgrade any item to Wrathful, just play with starting stuff) and you should be able to avoid bis bracket completely thus in return also avoid premades.

But isnt the BIS bracket most important one?

They are punishing people who got BIS gear or donate for it instead of just making a system where premades face only other premades.
Why is that a problem?

This way people are discouraged to donate or gear up unless they enjoy playing a premade, which is hard unless you are sadistic ego maniac anyway ..
Random bgs are not meant to be played this way ..

[Joklista]

Even without the high and middle brackets there are just too many tryhard bis geared premades. But after the gearbrackets seperation all premades are only in one bracket which makes this worse. As a solo player the only way to enjoy bgs is to play in the middle bg. Make a new blackrock 5,5kgs char, and only play with him. Dont get over 5,8kgs or you will be in the higher bracket. Thats why i stopped playing my 6,3gs chars and only play with my new chars in pvp. And arena is even worse, only wars with smourne at 1,5k rating. The only way to solve this is to prevent premades from getting into bgs. If this doesnt happen then i think more and more single players will stopp playing in the higher bracket and will go to the middle bracket and there will only be premade vs premade in the high bracket.

[Evangelion]

But isnt the BIS bracket most important one?

They are punishing people who got BIS gear or donate for it instead of just making a system where premades face only other premades.
Why is that a problem?

This way people are discouraged to donate or gear up unless they enjoy playing a premade, which is hard unless you are sadistic ego maniac anyway ..
Random bgs are not meant to be played this way ..

Beats me.

Enough carebears kept complaining and crying how they're getting one-two shot that they had to implement it even tho PvP worked perfectly fine without all the bull****tery that got added. Now it's exactly the same in all honesty, except now BIS people suffer from having to deal with premades every other BG. Fun fact: was vs Premade and I had a 14k mage in my team (due to bug or he had one bis item donated, not sure), much fair, wow.

Note: this also screws geared people from Lordaeron even more than Crossrealm - due to lack of PvP guilds/premades they can only enjoy getting constantly stomped by Icecrown premades/Shadowmournes. Bet that's fun too.

It was the overall thing in every expansion even on retail - join RBG as fresh max level - expect to get easily killed by people who've been playing for a while. Fighting people who are stronger then you also improved your skill even if you didn't get to kill them 1v1, you had to learn to CC etc properly. We've all been through this and most of us dealt with it and didn't end up quitting/being trash. Now people who donate on new-ish chars will get **** on constantly in BiS bracket because they're unskilled and/or facing premades constantly, before at least they could fight lower geared people (albeit one can say unfair, but a bit skilled furious/rele dude can easily **** on a BiS clueless guy).

Should've kept RandomBG the way it is, and actually made RatedBG system (that's mutually exclusive with soloQ or 2v2) where premades can actually fight and get something meaningful - even if it's unique/CUSTOM titles.

Might as well be Custom titles because, let's be honest, Warmane has been a custom server for a while now.

[Lonelywolf]

I think the best solution is to only make premades face each other and not allowed in random BG. As we all know, premades usually are bis geared and dont want NOTHING from BG except fun. Obviously, their way of having fun is feeling dominant and killing others. They dont need honor, and certainly they wouldn't enjoy if they get stomped by another premade. They like to be the dominant party. Or perhaps they just enjoy killing players. If thats the case, then they can do it by raiding cities. They dont have to dominate a BG for the fun of it.

Let people who want to feel challenged and still win have random BG without being ruined by premades.

Honestly, the only way to have fun these days is to create a twink character level 19-29-39..etc. No way you will enjoy with the system as it is. Even in Arenas, look at highest ranks in 2v2 (hpal/wars) usually with little to no losses. Or rank 1 in soloque, a warrior with 33 losses in total... PLEASE tell me that a man who qued with 2 random guys never had unlucky match ? or never made a mistake ? or never got outcomboed ? or never had complete noob partners ? Somehow he always won. Comon, tell me this doesn't take some kind of script to 3 shot targets..

Regardless of whether or not there are scripts, still, warriors/dks are dealing insane damage that a healer cannot withstand (unless you're a holy paladin). You cant equip heroic gear as a healer and suddenly you're dominating Arenas. Sadly you have to stick with all the basic gear that was used by everyone in retail. Warriors and Dks are running high standard gear that never seen in retail, something blizzard probably haven't had to deal with at all to realize the problem they have created.

Wotlk has been a great expansion in terms of gameplay/spells/system, but not in gear and dominance of classes. It is so hard to enjoy anything at all in this expansion these days.

[Poisonbite]

I will mention something that would actually work balancing the pvp:

- gear restrictions for arenas (2v2, 3v3, soloq) - no ICC25hc or RS25hc gear nor SM allowed;
- add ISLE pvp zone like old Blackrock used to have, you can make it in two phase, one for starters, one for 6k + or BIS geared;
- remove the arena merge on Lordaeron, you already need couple of months in order to get lvl 80 and furious gear just to get smashed vs BIS people on the first match of the arena, that's b****, the whole 1x experience on that realm was ruined by merging bgs and arenas with icecrown where 80-90% of the population who do pvp are already BIS since the realm is old, or blackrock who can get free gear or get BIS in like 1 month tops, I mean why would a new player pick Lordaeron instead of Blackrock or Icecrown? For hard pve content? Yes, but for pvp - there is no point in that, since you have to farm your *** really hard for the pve gear since it's buffed and eat tons of loses from arenas until you manage somehow to pull some rating;
- ban Mboxers to join WG, you know the quality of WG is ruined by them and other players suffer the consequences of 2-3 guys who decide it's very funny to roll 20 characters in the same time wiping the entire map with starfall, they can have their own fun by raiding cities or world pvp;
- try fixing MMR issue with soloq, I can't possibly join in the start of season with fresh mmr healer with team members of 1800 and 1900 rating (2k MMR) this is insane, either they waited 30 minutes que which I doubt, either the MMR system is very bad;
- promote 3v3 more, it will be way nicer to have people play 3s instead of 2s, it will be more diversity in the team classes, maybe add more arena points for the flush, or higher transmog drop rate (which is low af anyways) or other bonuses which can be honor, gold, gems, you name it;
- keeping world pvp alive and regular blizzlike gameplay, maybe you could add the same NPC's from blackrock who sell PVE items for arena points + rating in the icecrown and lordaeron realms? This way you can keep the impression of leveling and farming your gear while avoid doing PVE (some people don't like it and they do it just to get better in PVP with the pve item advantages, you know like MOP or other expanses where the best PVP gear could only be bought from PVP vendors and not PVE raids). This will make things a little more fair if you do not plan to cancel the arena merge. I know you can say "go play blackrock" but in the same time, maybe you would like to lvl up on regular content, explore, farm proffesions, world pvp or God knows what are your things in wow;
- implement a system that prevents getting matched against the same team over and over again, for example after 2 matches block the 3rd at least, this way will make sniping or farming the same teams impossible;

Thats what I came up with for now.

[Keymouse8800]

This topics shouldn't even start. Its a MMO (Massive multiplayer). Just because you don't have fun, because other guys are having fun together shouldn't be a reason to create rant topics all over the forum. All you need to do is start socializing and get your own group going instead of trying to break other groups or just restrict them for your own gains. There is no balancing in PvP. It wasn't treully balanced during retail WOTLK its not treuly balanced in Warmane.
It is what it is, restrictions of others for your own gains will never work and will never be viewed as an option.

[MileR88]

This topics shouldn't even start. Its a MMO (Massive multiplayer). Just because you don't have fun, because other guys are having fun together shouldn't be a reason to create rant topics all over the forum. All you need to do is start socializing and get your own group going instead of trying to break other groups or just restrict them for your own gains. There is no balancing in PvP. It wasn't treully balanced during retail WOTLK its not treuly balanced in Warmane.
It is what it is, restrictions of others for your own gains will never work and will never be viewed as an option.

Well warmane started with custom balance when it comes to random bgs with gear bracket, they will address premade spam as well in time.
It was not like that in retail at all, random bgs are literally unplayable for people who are not in a rated bg like group .

[dccct]

This topics shouldn't even start. Its a MMO (Massive multiplayer). Just because you don't have fun, because other guys are having fun together shouldn't be a reason to create rant topics all over the forum. All you need to do is start socializing and get your own group going instead of trying to break other groups or just restrict them for your own gains. There is no balancing in PvP. It wasn't treully balanced during retail WOTLK its not treuly balanced in Warmane.
It is what it is, restrictions of others for your own gains will never work and will never be viewed as an option.

These topics are warranted precisely because this is an MMO. When a small group of players are able to monopolize Random Battlegrounds and Wintergrasp, turning them into their personal farms or playgrounds at the expense of other players, the only way to address it is through systemic changes. There has been several proposals ranging from separation of realms, change of starter gear on Blackrock, adjustments to the queue and gear bracket system (randomize team rosters, limit premade size, prevent premades from entering RBG, increase premade match bias with other premades..., etc), and even the capping or hiding of Honorable Kill statistics. Which one of these will be adopted, if any, is entirely up to Warmane. While PVP has never been truly balanced, certain parts of it has also never been as imbalanced and intolerable as it is now. Just because you might be one of the few who benefit from the current system does not make it good nor optimal for the masses.

[Keymouse8800]

How many of you guys are healers, how many of you even plays bg as group. you are ranting that groups own you, well they should after all this is why people group up in the first place, unitedwe stand, divided we fall and ****.

But hey comparing multiboxers to premades to force your point how a small group of people are ruining it for the majority ain't right. I got plenty against multiboxers but seems for the time being they gonna do what they do.
I bet premades are actually a pretty big % of players playing pvp, because pvp was always meant to be played in a group


Oh and since all of you are talking about balance balance, I don't see you ranting how certain classes are overpowered over most, because you probably play them. You want balance addressed, make suggestions that will actually balance classes, don't make suggestions that affect the ability for people to play together. Maybe then we could have a conversation about balancing

[Evangelion]

How many of you guys are healers, how many of you even plays bg as group. you are ranting that groups own you, well they should after all this is why people group up in the first place, unitedwe stand, divided we fall and ****.

I play both the healer and damage.

Rarely playing in Premades because only like 2 people are still logging that I know. Also all "pVp CuMuNiTi/gUiLds" do now is queue like apes with 10-15 people which is something that only an insane person can find fun after a while. It's such a rare sight to see 5 man premades going around.

It's not the issue of premades winning - why should it be, they're made for that? The issue comes with the fact that only the highest bracket gets pooled with them - which is not a hell of a lot of people - which makes you have super high chance of getting up against a Premade. This wasn't the case before and that was fine - seeing a premade once in a while is cool, seeing it constantly is just annoying.

But hey comparing multiboxers to premades to force your point how a small group of people are ruining it for the majority ain't right. I got plenty against multiboxers but seems for the time being they gonna do what they do.
I bet premades are actually a pretty big % of players playing pvp, because pvp was always meant to be played in a group

It's not comparable to Multiboxing, while MBX has it's own array of issues, it rarely affects BGs - it only affects WG sadly, but it's not like it didn't work on WotLK Retail so while I dislike it, I don't want it changed.

Premades being a big part? Yes, but also no. There aren't that many premades going around, never were many PMs going around on Molten/Warmane. The issue comes into play here, not when you get 5 man premades and what-not, but when all you see a bunch of apes premading with 10-15 people because they're too **** to win otherwise - and even then it was questionable.

However, I don't give a flying **** about 15 ape premades either, as I already said - I didn't mind meeting them every now and then while solo queueing, but getting them constantly - which again isn't their fault; it's Warmanes - then it becomes tiring.

The simplest solutions are as I said:

1. Revert Randong BG to default WotLK (no brackets, **** everyone)
2. Revert Random BG to system that was installed like a year ago (it was based on ilevel but I'll do an approximate GS values: 0gs - 3k gs - bracket #1; 3k gs and everything above - bracket #2)
3. Do either of the above and on top of it add Rated BG.

Either of those two systems work well because it contains the huge amount of people in the pool, thus you end up rarely seeing the 2-3 premades that are going around and also, you rarely end up seeing same faces 10 bgs in row.

Oh and since all of you are talking about balance balance, I don't see you ranting how certain classes are overpowered over most, because you probably play them. You want balance addressed, make suggestions that will actually balance classes, don't make suggestions that affect the ability for people to play together. Maybe then we could have a conversation about balancing

What the **** did I just read?
Go play another expansion if you want different class balance.

All that's really needed here is making it less of a custom server.

[Keymouse8800]

Okey i get your point and you won me on few of your suggestions. Nah i don't really want balance either, but that is what balance means to me. And the reason server became so custom on so many things is exactly people rant about stuff that don't suit them so warmane introduce custom things to make those ranting happy too. People say that current bracket system ****s with BIS guys now, but before it there was like daily topics about how unfair are bgs since low gs guys meet full bis guys.

And that brings me to what i kinda tried to say but i think i got miss understood, you shouldn't punish premades because they premade. This was my point. And screw solo elitist joe that can't make any friends but want to be a dominant force on bg. Fun fact atm in my AV there are 3 different small premades consisting of 2-5 people and you say people don't party up ? :D

[Evangelion]

Indeed, premades should stay the way they are and it's completely fine, no reason to screw even more people over - but knowing Warmane it might happen if they stick to these bull**** brackets instead of reverting to one of the previous systems.

To a degree, this didn't really change anything for them either, if you do full premade to fill almost all the BG slots (smaller bgs), you really didn't care if it was 3k gs team or 6k, if you want to win you can do it anyways because of coordination if your group is decent.

Overall, the reason people above mainly focused on Premades with their ideas was simply due to Warmane adding custom **** that was not necessary just to cater to carebears (and because it's also Warmane, they are very difficult to remove their bull****, and instead add more bull**** on top of it).

This is from a perspective of someone who also played as fresh-er 80 against high geared people since brackets didn't exist and it never caused issues to me. And I've done it multiple times, on retail, then on Molten and in the end on Warmane.

[Keymouse8800]

That my friend is why i'm taking a stand against rants targeting premade groups. I dont mind trying to find a middle ground for all people from the average joe to the full bis people, to premade. But unlike your suggestions most was just pure rant and suggesting restrictions for parties. Nothing constructive and nothing that will deal with current situation. In fact i believe few of the suggestions above will bring even more rant and even more misfortune.