1. June 9, 2021  

    GDKP raids

    Hi guys!

    What do you think about gdkp raids? Is there anyone who's interested in this type of raiding?
    It can be useful to check the link below:

    I'm curious about your opinion.

  2. Hi Eperkeheh!

    My personal opinion on the matter is this: The single thing keeping me from saying that my WOTLK-experience on Warmane is PERFECT is that there are sadly no frequent GDKP-raids. If there were, then the Icecrown server would be the place of my dreams.

    I'm a GDKP veteran, having gained a two-year experience of 5-10 icc25(hc) runs a week on a once-mighty Hungarian private server (not allowed to name it). Judging by both your name and your possibly similar love for these kinds of PUGS, I have a hunch that you may also have, at one point or another, been a resident of the server I'm talking about. Greetings from many-many years ago! :D

    One of the greatest things standing in the way of GDKP's currently is the fact that the general population here hasn't even heard about this kind of raiding format - and those who have, again the majority of whom, haven't participated in one. If some proper attention would be raised, we would have a decent chance that GDKP's become a frequent activity here, too.

    The other is the widespread misconception of every single item having a very specific value, regulated by the gold-coin market on the website. This, pairing with the practice of being able to (or strongly urging others to) just outright purchase any item for IRL money rather than go for it in-game leads to where we are now. All this, however, does not account for two traits...to VERY SPECIFIC traits that all gdkp-participants aim for:
    1. They have their own vision, each and every one of them, on what each item is worth to them. Currently, you can buy a 25N Dying Light for 22 coins. According to the Market, that's about 70.000 gold. Some casters may deem that about right. Others would stop at 5-10k. And someone might regard a 100k pricetag as one to call when bidding, above gold market prices. More on this later.
    2. They love the thrill of the raid. They want to EARN their items - or their gold in the end. More specifically: they want to leave things such as the website market out of their game.

    What are the main benefits of a GDKP-raid?

    - You ALWAYS get to take away something!
    Either your desired item(s), or your even share of the gold pot during RO. Or both! Just be sure not to do anything stupid enough to get yourself kicked. ;)

    - No prior dedication to others!
    You do not have to raid in a guild for months to get that one single item everyone always needs. If you end up being the top bidder, it's yours.

    - Raid when you want!
    You don't have to set your schedule for the regular early-evening guild-raids, you can go anytime during the day. This stands for normal PUG raids, too.

    - High quality!
    It is perhaps the most disciplined form of PUG's: whether you pay an entrance fee (given back if you are still in the raid at the end) or not, the gradually increasing pot size - and the risk of getting kicked before the pot is distributed - is incentive enough to keep fellow raiders from disrespecting pull timers, causing wipes, going afk, insulting others, etc. This means that you can expect to have a good team!

    - Low GS, High Skill, backed up with your gold!
    Due to aiming for decent profits, gear requirements are much more realistic for these raids. Much less GS-wise (on the old server I was on, the typical requirement was 4800 for toc10/25N, 5200 for TOC 10/25 HC 5400 for ICC10/25N, and 5800 for ICC10/25 HC). However, your actual gear was more strictly checked. Set bonuses, char-relevent stats and gemming, correct glyph/enchas were and are to be expected. And of course, you are expected to know what you're doing with your "realistic gs" character - and you have your gold on the line.

    - No website/market BS...instant transaction!
    If you won the bid, you are not subject to other parties. You get your item instantly. You do not have to wait for hours or maybe even days to get lucky on the website - or make an incredibly overpriced offer of gold to get your coins for the item... here, you get your gold's worth instantly. Often, under the value the website asks for it. But, time is money, friend! And some players value a safe and guaranteed instant-grab higher than the hassle of the website, and will pay a bit higher than the current market-value of the item. Either way, no whims and whoes of gold-buyers, and Warmane coin taxes. You get your item. And the other 24 players are happy for you! They now ALL have a bit of your gold in return!

    - Great gold-farm!
    Generally, a very good place to make gold, A GDKP raid, or even a number of them can easily substitute other means of making money. If the chance for scrolls and eof farming wasn't enough already to take a BiS character into an ICC 25N fullclear, now you're even getting paid for it.

    - Great boost for your character!
    On the other hand, If you've got the right kind of gold for it, you needn't look for a guild to boost you. You just got a raid leader and 24 other people who are more than happy to assist you! Believe me, they really hope your items drop, haha! And you don't necessarily have to be filthy-rich, either, just have a decent reserve of gold.

    - Great experience!
    Naturally, you will experience the thrill of a high-quality raiding, where nearly all benefits of guild-raiding meet most of the benefits of PUGS! You may not know everyone on your team by heart, and you will most definitely not get anything with a lucky roll... but this format prefers performance to luck anyways, and if you go on the same leader's GDKP's often, you'll eventually get to know each other nonetheless.

    Some features, traits of GDKP's:

    - Gold pot can consist of: entrance fee's, highest bids for items, punishment fines, achievement pops (KS, Bane, LoD), and certain miscellaneous extras.
    - Everything is sold, nothing is reserved. BoE's, Primo's, Recipes, everything goes to the highest bidder - the gold of whom goes into the pot.
    - A typical pot distribution after the raid: Lead cuts of 10% for himself, the rest is allocated evenly 24 ways in the case of a 25-man raid. If, say, the pot was a very shy 100k (already at current rates, a single good trinket can net close to that total), the raider's share will end up being 3750 gold for the run (100k-10k=90k, which got split 24 ways). HC boss loots, tokens, pre-bis or bis items also boost the pot. A decent loot table could probably net a 10k+ return for each raider after the run. Empirical data on Icecrown would be good to have, but one can safely assume that hourly wages are VERY GOOD in GDKP's.
    - If someone leaves or gets kicked, then the freshly joined replacement player is automatically entitled to the full share of the person who left. This traditionally is an immense motivator to join such a raid late and getting the ID. For the last few bosses, or maybe even for just the few minutes of a single LK kill, a potentially 10k+ share of the pot may be on of the most profitable time-investments ingame. Replacements are fast and plentiful, provided enough players aware of this format are available.
    - Due to the nature of these runs, participants are usually seasoned players gearing their alts or boosting just for their share of gold in the end... so despite the seemingly tense and demanding atmosphere, a typical GDKP-run is usually quite laid-back, even jovial at times. You do get to laugh and have fun, actually!

    Final parting thoughts:

    - I understand that at least a few points above are subjective in nature. What I deem a benefit may be the greatest drawback for others. In fact: "forcing you" to be present for the full duration of the raid, not allowing you to take a 30-minute break to walk your dog or have a cigarette, and not being able to get a BiS trinket with a lucky "/roll 100" is exactly why many people will steer clear from this format. That is perfectly okay, too - since normal PUG's have their own beauties, too. The two formats (normal PUG and GDKP) should always co-exist, without one totally banishing the other from a server.

    Here, on Warmane (and I'm hoping on Icecrown in particular!), we could see GDKP's. But perhaps two steps are necessary:
    1. Start off in "small": Reach out to a small amount of players, establish a small community of GDKP players to kickstart this format on the server. A loose alliance of a few guilds, or a brand-new "GDKP-guild" may be enough.
    2. Record our progress, and promote our doings. Post or even stream successful runs, screenshot huge bidwars for certain items, final pots, and memorable moments. Raise public awareness, and gain the attention of an increasing number of players. While perhaps GDKP's will remain a nieche for many months, at least those interested can finally have a go on Warmane server(s), too!

    Count me in - I can hardly wait!

    P.S.: My apologies for the wall of text, and for the quite probable chance and amount of typos. Doesn't really matter. What does is that I hope GDKP's will become a common sight soon!
    Edited: June 10, 2021

  3. No GDKP is a cancer and the reason why Vanilla retail and tbc are failing. GDKP runs just make bots and farmers even more happy. Also I do not want runs where one item will be sold for 125k gold or such. Just no, terrible thing.

  4. kek/bur.

    No, PUG is a cancer. Even if it's not, that's exactly the amount of effort you put into your argument. Perhaps elaborate?

    and the reason why Vanilla retail and tbc are failing.
    No. Little scrubs are whining children nowadays, you can buy insta-max level boosts, and that's about it. How is GDKP the reason?

    GDKP runs just make bots and farmers even more happy.
    As for bots: Screw them. They'll get banned anyways. In the case of farmers, good. You know: "fruits of our labor". Why should it be bad for someone who actually WORKS for something? Oh yeah, new generation. Do nothing, expect everything.

    Also I do not want runs where one item will be sold for 125k gold or such.
    You don't want to, you don't have to. You'll always have the normal pugs for the happy-go-lucky type. GDKP and PUG coexist.
    Btw, you DO realize if one item goes for that much, you just earned 4.6-5k gold that very instant from the winning player? Which you can spend elsewhere? If you actually want the 125k item, then simply do 8-10 gdkp runs for it, and you have the cash. The same way you have the dkp in a guild for that exact item. Except, unlike the dkp in a guild, you can spend your gold anywhere.

    Just no, terrible thing.
    Just yes, perfect thing!

    Let me know if any gdkp hits Icecrown. Ally or Horde, doesn't matter.

  5. No GDKP is a cancer and the reason why Vanilla retail and tbc are failing. GDKP runs just make bots and farmers even more happy. Also I do not want runs where one item will be sold for 125k gold or such. Just no, terrible thing.
    I know a perfect solution in you don't want to pay 125k for an item or whatever: don't join GDKP raids. (amazing, right?)
    There are people who want such things and they will make it happen. I doubt they will care if you are ok with it.

    One of the main points of GDKP is finding people who are willing to put gold where their mouth is, they are invested to make the raid go nice and complete. Not like it's the only way to do that, literally every guild does that no matter what kind of system they use. But the next aspect is really great - all your farming or wits to make gold - are rewarded. And here is yet another aspect - if you are dumb as a stump with 0 gold, you can put your experience raiding to use and walk away with really nice chunk of gold, I guess that would make you smart, finding a way to make gold.

    What's not to like?
    Edited: June 13, 2021

  6. I think the biggest "issue" here is the trust towards the person, who would gather everyone's gold and distribute it at the end. Kripp mentions it here as well:

    As MiaNeptune said, someone needs to record and promote such raids, so that people could see that the RL is a trustworthy person, who wouldn't dare to scam anyone. If the gdkp runs organised by that individual prove to be successful, you'd naturally see more enthusiasts wanting to participate in these events.

  7. That video provides a very decent visual description of what one should expect from such a raid. Perfect advertising!

    Perhaps the best way to start off GDKP's here would, in terms of technicalities, be in the form of a guild. Where entrance is granted to both GDKP-enthusiasts and those who demonstrate "active curiousity": the willingness to participate in such raids after understanding what it's all about and how it works. In terms of moving on, very active advertizing on global channels, and perhaps a few "interest-generating" videos, with related forum-discussions and screenshotted results being published might pave the way to seeing an observable, maybe even considerable increase of GDKP's within a few months.

    I am sadly not raid-leader material, but I can, and would very happily contribute to the cause with some ingame firepower and gold. I'd also happily do advertising on the channels. I'll also try to persuade some acquaintances - some of whom I know would readily join up. Due to IRL duties, my online capacities are currently limited to Icecrown, Alliance side. However, if more of our enthusiasts are Horde-sided, I would happily reroll or transfer, too. I currently have a smaller battalion of Alliance warlocks ranging between 5.8-6.5k gs as carriers, and also some who would be on the "customer side", too, around 5-5.4k. Anything to get the job done! ;)

  8. You have to be able to clear the content.

    So, good luck with GDKP outside a guild.

  9. People in pug raids would probably be intrested if there's no "entrence fee".
    If there is they want to be certain the leader isn't goin to ninja all the gold at the end.

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