1. 1 Week Ago  

    Battleground bracket matching suggestion

    Dear Warmane team:
    I noticed there was a recent changes related to battleground bracket system. And now I no longer be able to join the gear matching brackets that are for less geared players. Instead, I have been being put in bis bracket all the time.

    Could you spend some more time and consider other possibilities (My suggestions at the end)

    To give you a comparisons:
    1) Ice Crown player: dkfurious, geared at average item lvl less than 210. with max item level 232. And he is being put in bis bracket with players whose average item lvl are 277 with 284 weapons. That obviously is not right.

    2) Frostmourne player: Skilledk, geared at average 233 item level, with max item level 245, And he is able to join low bracket with players whose average item lvls are 213.

    I understand that you want to make battleground bracket system fair by preventing twink players entering lower brackets. But dkfurious is not even a twink. Compared with skilledk, dkfurious is far below geared.

    ================================================== ===============
    Now here is my suggestions based on Season 7.5
    ================================================== ===============

    [I] 5 levels and 3 brackets (debatable):
    ================================================== ===============
    level 1: Avg item level <=200 and max item level <= 200 ------------------------------- LOW BRACKET
    level 2: Avg item level <=213 and max item level <= 232 -------------------------------- LOW BRACKET
    level 3: Avg item level <= 232 and max item level <= 245 ------------------------------ MID BRACKET
    level 4: Avg item level >= 245 or max item level >= 264 ---------------------------------- HIGH BRACKET
    level 5: Avg item level >= 264 or max item level >= 284 ----------------------------------- HIGH BRACKET

    [II] One LB + Three Queues for battlegrounds:
    ================================================== ===============
    queue 1: for level 5 players (bis players)
    queue 2: for ICC and Lordaeron
    queue 3: for FM and Blackrock seasonal

    When a player entering a queue for battleground, a load balancer (LB) will determine the player's level and realm and put him into the corresponding queue.

    queue 1 has higher priority then queue 2, and queue 2 has higher priority than queue 3
    That means, the system will try to fulfil queue 1 before consider queue 2, and then queue 3.
    The benefit will be mentioned below.

    [III] Adding additional fair controls when cross-realm feature considered:
    ================================================== ===============
    1) Frost Mourne + Blackrock seasonal players can join brackets just based on the player levels.
    2 ICC and Lordaeron players should have progressive meter when season advanced, that is:
    When FM advanced from season 7 to season 7.5.
    ICC and Lordaeron players can only join the matching brackets in the second half of the season.

    Otherwise, they can only join matching level brackets with ICC and Lordaeron players
    or brackets with one level higher players from FM and Blackrocks.

    This is where the 3 queues system comes into play because we need to prioritize intra-realm bgs over inter-realm bgs.

    For example: In the first half of the season when FM progressed from season 7 to season 7.5
    ICC+Lordaeron players joined the queue 2, and FM+Blackrock players joined queue 3.
    1) LOW Bracket
    High priority (intra-realm bgs): Queue 2 will always have higher priority to form battlegrounds with ICC+Lordaeron players with matching level brackets. Then (inter-realm bgs): When queue 3 does not have enough players, LB will distribute level 1 players from queue 2.

    As a result:
    level 1+2 players from ICC+Lordaeron will have higher chance join LOW bracket with ICC+Lordaeron level 1+2 players
    level 1 players from ICC+Lordaeron can also have a small chance to join LOW bracket with level 1+2 players from FM+Blackrock

    2) MID Bracket
    High priority (intra-realm bgs): Queue 2 will always have higher priority to form battlegrounds with ICC+Lordaeron players with matching level brackets. Then (inter-realm bgs): When queue 3 does not have enought players, LB will distribute level 2 players from queue 2.

    As a result:
    level 3 players from ICC+Lordaeron will have higher chance join MID bracket with ICC+Lordaeron evel 3 players
    level 2 players from ICC+Lordaeron can also have a small chance to join MID bracket with level 3 players from FM+Blackrock

    3) High Bracket
    High priority (intra-realm bgs): Queue 2 will always have higher priority to form battlegrounds with ICC+Lordaeron players with matching level brackets. Then (inter-realm bgs): When queue 3 does not have enought players, LB will distribute level 3 players from queue 2.

    As a result:
    level 4 players from ICC+Lordaeron will have higher chance join HIGH bracket with ICC+Lordaeron evel 4 players
    level 3 players from ICC+Lordaeron can also have a small chance to join HIGH bracket with level 4 players from FM+Blackrock

    But wait.....what....what about level 5 players (you might ask)?, well, they always join queue 1. When queue 1 doesnt have enough players for a certain amount of time (10 minutes?) queue 1 will borrow players from queue 2 for level 4 players and queue 3 for level 4 players if they have any.


    Of course, this can also be applied to all seasons with number changed for each season.
    And the implementation detail can be very complicated, but the idea behind is simple:
    1) define multiple levels of brackets based on each seasons (this can be stored in a data layer)
    2) ICC+Lordaeron player can join matching level brackets in the second half of the season
    3) prioritize intra-realm bgs over inter-realm bgs

    Thank you very much

    Yours, truely, DkFurious
    Edited: 1 Week Ago

  2. 1 Week Ago  
    It has been stated and repeated many times that more brackets won't be created. What we have currently has a good balance of splitting very low from very high without any major increase in queue times, but any other extra bracket would reduce the overall amount of players available in each and create longer waits.

    Also, let's not forget that such separation did not even exist in Wrath of the Lich King. You would only hear about brackets in Cataclysm and they were only about levels, so people still could cheese their way into having an advantage. Battlegrounds were just a big, messy skirmish, with all ranges of gearing going against each other, premades or randoms, mostly used as a stepping stone to get prepared for Arenas down the line or as casual fun.

    Despite this, we still went and introduced the current brackets, listening to players' requests and complains. But let's not turn this into a case of "you give a hand and they want your arm," please. Battlegrounds were never meant to be fair or balanced, and brackets were never meant to make them so, only to reduce the disparity by a certain margin. I don't think anyone in the team is interested in turning Battlegrounds into something else, which is what a gazillion other "fairness" measures would cause.

  3. 1 Week Ago  
    As a kinda seasoned PvP player, I'm wondering if ilvl itself is actually the issue you've been encountering. Of course, a low ilvl team gets almost always wrecked against a high ilvl team. But statistically, both teams get on average an identical mix of low ilvls and high ilvls (with one caveat discussed later), so that it evens out. It's not fun for low ilvls to play against high ilvls you say? I aagree, but I'd say the double bracket that is lready in place should be sufficient for that, without splitting/slowing the queue population even more.

    And after all, low ilvls should progress and upgrade their gear to become stronger. Those who don't want to progress, should probably twink at e.g. lvl 79. So where's the issue? Personally, I think premades play against randoms may be more responsible for what you're finding, because this way you have an "artificially" high ilvl and coordinated group playing against the mix of ilvls we've talked before. So yeah, according to this reasoning there's still the ilvl involved, but it's the effect more than the cause.
    Edited: 1 Week Ago

  4. 1 Week Ago  
    @Obnoxious, Are you saying there is currently ONLY 2 brackets, and warmane won't create another one? But the fact I observed that at least three brackets currently running.
    One for very low geared players, One for flesh started Blackrock season 8 players, one for bis.
    And my idea was NOT even increasing number of brackets anyways. It was about ways to solve balancing and a way to solve queue time.

    If you think bgs were never meant to be fair or balanced then why preventing 15--mbox entering AV? why preventing ICC bis player mixed with FM players?

    They gave us a hand and we want an arm? You exaggerated the situation.
    It is more like: "They gave us a hand, we want the hand to be cleaned"
    Edited: 1 Week Ago

  5. 1 Week Ago  
    @theborg9,
    Thank you for your support and idea as well.

    Well, I really do think ONLY one big melting pot bg might be the way to go (back to original).
    But then again, if mixing lows with high is a good idea then why we even care about FM players cried about mixing with ICC fully geared monsters camping them at the graveyard because guess what? they should have "an identical mix of" FM players and ICC fully geared players?

    But then again, if statistically both teams get on average identical mix of low and high, then why I keep on hearing horde players migrating to ally side just to avoid being smashed in the bgs and join the teams that smash horde?

    The root of the cause is the in-balancing.
    Either like you proposed: Fully randomize the bgs:
    1) All players have 50% chance to become horde or ally
    2) Premade groups will be randomized and each party member have 50% chance to become horde or ally
    3) mbox will be randomized also, and each party member have 50% chance to becomes horde or ally

    Or we just need to make current system a little more balanced

  6. 1 Week Ago  
    Yeah I do think there's a benefit from double bracket, indeed.
    What you say is right, factions introduce a barrier to randomization since alliance probably has got a higher proportion of very skilled/pvp geared players, e.g. due to the human racial which is preferred for PvP.
    Maybe better than randomizing would be for teams to be paired against in a way that the average ilvl of the teams is similar. (With this I'm not implying the lower ilvl bracket should be removed).

  7. 1 Week Ago  
    why would you make the PVP server the lowest priority in Que? lol.

  8. 1 Week Ago  
    As I said in my reply to your PM, you might be calling them "levels," but they're still nothing but "sub-brackets" that you them push into traditional brackets, which could be enough to imbalance the amount of players in each and create wait times the current solution avoids.

    Quoting something else from that: "No matter what separation we choose, there will be people with "better ideas" wanting theirs to be implemented, just like there are people who like how it is now. We can't make everyone happy or listen to what everyone wants, so we have to settle for something that serves its purpose without breaking something else."

  9. 1 Week Ago  
    I have some strange thing too about this bracket issue... My chars.
    1. Barbq 234ilvl(5040gs) bis bracket, i was 2 weeks ago in mid bracket, with starter gear Blackrocks. Yea, im a twink.
    2. Punishr 197 ilvl, also get into bis bracket,
    I tried to nake a char fully, and it gets also in mid-high bg.
    Dont know how are theese brackets working, but PLEASE let us playing where we want! Dont know what is the system counting HK/BG played time or something else, but 197 ilvl vs 260+ ilvl players its insane!
    We are hope the problem of brackets will be solved!
    Thanks in advance!

  10. 1 Week Ago  
    I have some strange thing too about this bracket issue... My chars.
    1. Barbq 234ilvl(5040gs) bis bracket, i was 2 weeks ago in mid bracket, with starter gear Blackrocks. Yea, im a twink.
    2. Punishr 197 ilvl, also get into bis bracket,
    I tried to nake a char fully, and it gets also in mid-high bg.
    Dont know how are theese brackets working, but PLEASE let us playing where we want! Dont know what is the system counting HK/BG played time or something else, but 197 ilvl vs 260+ ilvl players its insane!
    We are hope the problem of brackets will be solved!
    Thanks in advance!
    That is exactly what I have experienced.

    And, me too, hoping Warmane can have the gear matching brackets fixed.
    We need more voices to be heard.

  11. 1 Week Ago  
    We need more voices to be heard.
    I second that, with an actual chance of that happenning. There was a good reason we haven't done that until now, but things seem to have gotten out of hand.

    I agree with nearly all points of your suggestion.

    "ICC and Lordaeron players can only join the matching brackets in the second half of the season.

    Otherwise, they can only join matching level brackets with ICC and Lordaeron players
    or brackets with one level higher players from FM and Blackrocks."

    In this sense, FM players would have some time (1.5 months) to gear up before the merge, sounds fair. For Blackrocks, I'd simply implement either a 50-50% or a progressive chance to join either the fresh Frostmourne or the ICC-Lordaeron bracet. The somewhat better gearing is usually compensated by a lack of character understanding, and FM has proven to have evolved to be able to effectively deal with singular twinks anyways.

    Other than this, I really like the suggestion, as although seeming to be a bit complicated at first, it actually DOESN'T introduce new bracets, rather optimizes them. Also, it creates a more defined place in the system for...whatever it is our characters are called...us. :)

  12. 1 Week Ago  
    I liked brackets how it was before. Of course there was someone twinking, there will always someone be (and I am one of them). And I put effort into making twink, i was doing that BGs with low gear too to get honor, i spent coins for weapon to make that twink competitive with other twinks... and then you just change it and all my work and money is trashed because my character with 4800 gs log against people with 5600-6100 gs.

    And it would be nice to know, where the boundaries are too. Because if there is some new player, he donate and buy 277 ilvl weapon and he is instantly thrown into higher bracket, then ofc he would reconsider his purchase.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •