WotLK Focused Aim and Steady shot pushback

[hellohamburger]

Hi.

I have hit overcap and wanna put 0/3 points to the "Focused Aim" talent to get, for example, "Improved Arcane Shot" or some mana saving talents.

Is it worth overall, or i will suffer a huge DPS-loss because of pushback on bosses with non-avoidable abilities?

Bonus question: do i neet to change tracking to get benefit from "Improved Tracking" talent? For example, when i track Undead, do i have 5% damage increase against Humanoid targets?

[skullatbash]

Bonus question: do i neet to change tracking to get benefit from "Improved Tracking" talent? For example, when i track Undead, do i have 5% damage increase against Humanoid targets?

nope, you do not need to change tracking based on the target.
As long as you enable 1 of those tracking mentioned on talent, you get the bonus vs all those creature type
(just "track hidden" gives no bonus vs anyone, since it is not mentioned by the talent)

[hellohamburger]

nope, you do not need to change tracking based on the target.
As long as you enable 1 of those tracking mentioned on talent, you get the bonus vs all those creature type
(just "track hidden" gives no bonus vs anyone, since it is not mentioned by the talent)

Thanks! Rest part of my question is still actual.

[Fmtansei]

you can drop points if you have higher hit than 4% on ally/5% horde, only certain bosses have pushback mechanics, tho the points you should get are rapid recup if you do lods and rs25hc's or imp barrage (considering u play trap spec, which you should)

[Frysharry]

you can drop points if you have higher hit than 4% on ally/5% horde, only certain bosses have pushback mechanics, tho the points you should get are rapid recup if you do lods and rs25hc's or imp barrage (considering u play trap spec, which you should)

You never need Rapid Recoup on LOD or RS25HC. Aspect Dancing with Multishot and on Explosive Trap is more than sufficient to manage mana.

[dike]

You never need Rapid Recoup on LOD or RS25HC. Aspect Dancing with Multishot and on Explosive Trap is more than sufficient to manage mana.

not true for 0% lod

[Frysharry]

not true for 0% lod

It's true for 0% or 30%. Aspect Dance on every Multishot and sustain Serpent on LK in P2 and you won't have any mana problems.

[Fmtansei]

You never need Rapid Recoup on LOD or RS25HC. Aspect Dancing with Multishot and on Explosive Trap is more than sufficient to manage mana.

you clearly never done 0%, rapid recup is a must, aspect dancing is just a straight dps loss, the point of rapid recup is minimizing aspect swapping.

[Fmtansei]

It's true for 0% or 30%. Aspect Dance on every Multishot and sustain Serpent on LK in P2 and you won't have any mana problems.

serpent sting isnt the reason you go oom. volley is.

[Frysharry]

you clearly never done 0%, rapid recup is a must, aspect dancing is just a straight dps loss, the point of rapid recup is minimizing aspect swapping.

serpent sting isnt the reason you go oom. volley is.

If you take Rapid Recoup in Trap Spec, you're losing DPS for no reason. The fights you go Trap Spec are some of the easiest to maintain mana because of having multiple targets to Dance Multishot on or swap Viper on Explosive Trap to regain/sustain mana: LoD/DBS/RS25HC.

You lose next to nil dps with Aspect Dancing, as that's the entire point of Dancing. Exploiting the damage from Hawk and the mana restoration from Viper. It is the single most valuable tactic as a Hunter on these fights for performing well. You will not be in top 1% of Hunters if you a) do not understand what Aspect Dancing is and/or b) cannot reliably perform it to sustain mana, especially on 0% LoD. Judging by your post, you don't know what Aspect Dancing actually is, so I will explain it to help not turn this thread into dick waving: starting in DHawk Aspect, fire Multishot. While the projectiles are mid air and before they hit the target, swap to Viper. The projectiles will do full damage because you fired them in Dragonhawk, but will also restore mana because you were in Viper when they hit the target. Every Aspect Dance Multishot will give you a net 3k mana, if not a little more, for comparably negligible DPS loss. Conversely, the opposite is also true: if you fire in Viper and swap to Dragonhawk before the missiles land, you will restore zero mana and do half damage because you a) fired the projectile while in Viper, incurring the 50% damage penalty and b) not restoring mana because you are not in Viper when the projectiles land. More importantly, every enemy hit by the initial "explosion" or tick of Explosive Trap count towards Viper; while you do lose 50% of this damage on the initial tick, the mana restored is more than worth than damage loss, as it would take 10+ seconds of sitting in Viper and spamming Steadies to restore the same amount of mana you did in a single global. On RS25HC for example, you will regain ~10-12k mana if you wait until all small add are herded to drop Explosive and swap to Viper.

Serpent Sting isn't the reason you go OOM, but it doesn't help your overall DPS when you are losing mana and a global by reapplying it to LK when you can do more boss damage and help your overall mana efficacy and global usage by refreshing with a Chimera. In this same global, you should always Aspect Dance Multishot to help sustain mana in P2.

For the record, I've been farming LoD 0% on Lordareon since Feburary 2019 every week as Hunter and have raided with exclusively top guilds (Raven, Illusion, Forgotten Brothers, to name a few). I don't know what your experience is, but I doubt you have much experience when you're giving out Awbee-tier Hunter advice.

Under no circumstances do Hunters "need", nor do they want, any points in Rapid Recouperation when running Trap Spec. Anyone who espouses this is woefully ignorant of how to actually manage mana as Hunter.

[dike]

If you take Rapid Recoup in Trap Spec, you're losing DPS for no reason. The fights you go Trap Spec are some of the easiest to maintain mana because of having multiple targets to Dance Multishot on or swap Viper on Explosive Trap to regain/sustain mana:

how moving a 1 point from Survial Instincts (2% crist chance for steady shot) and putting it into Rapid Recuperation is a dps loss

LoD/DBS/RS25HC.

Why would i ever use viper on dbs tho?? im not going oom even on arcane mage there

You lose next to nil dps with Aspect Dancing

you obviously loose single target dmg. like what do u even multishot on ph3 on lod outside spirits in chamber?

[Frysharry]

how moving a 1 point from Survial Instincts (2% crist chance for steady shot) and putting it into Rapid Recuperation is a dps loss

Because Steady Shot is your #2 damage source that also procs your #3 damage source, which is from crits.

Why would i ever use viper on dbs tho?? im not going oom even on arcane mage there

I guess that's an Icecrown luxury when you can just ignore all mechanics and zerg the boss in 40 seconds.

you obviously loose single target dmg. like what do u even multishot on ph3 on lod outside spirits in chamber?

You don't Multishot anything in P3. You sit in Viper during rooms and get full mana every room. Your goal in first transition as Hunter is a) getting out proper Misdirects on Ragings, b) helping with spheres if needed, and most importantly c) getting full mana going into P2. Because P2 is the most important phase of LoD, you don't want to have to sit in Viper and eat a DPS loss; it's significantly easier to maintain mana than it is to regenerate it. The goal is to enter P2 with full mana and maintain it until first room in P3. Ideally, you want to be at 0 mana just as you're going into first room, because you can sit in Viper in the first room and regen 100% of mana. Your role as Hunter in room is not to clear spirits like Shadow Priests or Boomys, but to kill stragglers that are moving towards the raid.

The damage loss from Dancing is negligible. It's overwhelmingly more efficient at regaining and sustaining mana (and DPS) than swapping to Viper and firing off 4 Steadies. You get more mana back, in less globals, you don't suffer from the damage penalty of Viper and you don't have to sit in Viper for longer than a global.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmjffMxkzg

Here's a vod of one of my streams in a guild I play in. 7/54/10 spec with no Rapid Recouperation.

[Fmtansei]

Because Steady Shot is your #2 damage source that also procs your #3 damage source, which is from crits.



I guess that's an Icecrown luxury when you can just ignore all mechanics and zerg the boss in 40 seconds.



You don't Multishot anything in P3. You sit in Viper during rooms and get full mana every room. Your goal in first transition as Hunter is a) getting out proper Misdirects on Ragings, b) helping with spheres if needed, and most importantly c) getting full mana going into P2. Because P2 is the most important phase of LoD, you don't want to have to sit in Viper and eat a DPS loss; it's significantly easier to maintain mana than it is to regenerate it. The goal is to enter P2 with full mana and maintain it until first room in P3. Ideally, you want to be at 0 mana just as you're going into first room, because you can sit in Viper in the first room and regen 100% of mana. Your role as Hunter in room is not to clear spirits like Shadow Priests or Boomys, but to kill stragglers that are moving towards the raid.

The damage loss from Dancing is negligible. It's overwhelmingly more efficient at regaining and sustaining mana (and DPS) than swapping to Viper and firing off 4 Steadies. You get more mana back, in less globals, you don't suffer from the damage penalty of Viper and you don't have to sit in Viper for longer than a global.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlmjffMxkzg

Here's a vod of one of my streams in a guild I play in. 7/54/10 spec with no Rapid Recouperation.

1st off, you literally have a free point via dropping trueshot aura, which unless you solotank without bdk, and the other hunter also dropped it and running without enhance, you dont need trueshot, 2- rapid recup is a bigger dps increase than 2% crit on steady, especially on 0% which you volley way more on valks.
2nd- your rapidfire and gain rapid recup off ragings + end of p1 ghouls.
3rd- your rapidfire comes back coming in after 1st trans, (x2 cuz of readiness) which gives u mana back, so you dont need to enter with full mana.
4th- the damage is not negligible, you should be maximizing output at all times, the point is limiting viper usage all the way until entering after 2nd trans as you viper to full inside 1st fmc.
5th- what are you even talking about icecrown luxury zerg the boss in 40 seconds. dbs takes barely any shorter.
6th- the fact that you mention multishoting under viper aspect is the biggest dps loss of your life, i like how you dont even notice that yourself.
7th- heres my pov of a ''couldve been good pull without grab'' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwLrJEEHglU

[Frysharry]

1st off, you literally have a free point via dropping trueshot aura, which unless you solotank without bdk, and the other hunter also dropped it and running without enhance, you dont need trueshot, 2- rapid recup is a bigger dps increase than 2% crit on steady, especially on 0% which you volley way more on valks.

This is true and I agree. I personally can't be arsed changing my spec for one or two bosses, but this is good advice if you only raid log for guild raids. I do PVP on the side and pugs so I will always try to have TSA in my spec just for as much of a universal usage as I can.

2nd- your rapidfire and gain rapid recup off ragings + end of p1 ghouls.

3rd- your rapidfire comes back coming in after 1st trans, (x2 cuz of readiness) which gives u mana back, so you dont need to enter with full mana.

I entered with like 80% mana and was fine through all of P2, so it doesn't necessarily even need to be full mana, but close to full.

5th- what are you even talking about icecrown luxury zerg the boss in 40 seconds. dbs takes barely any shorter.

I should've been more accurate, but this is more towards people progressing DBS HC on Lorda and don't have such short kill times. Rank 1 DBS HC on Lorda is our kill in Illusion with 2:03 time, and yes, there is no mana problems on a fight of this length. DBS is a great boss to use Trap Spec, and if you're progressing it you can easily drop trap on beasts and get like 5-6k mana back every wave, which is sufficient to maintain mana through a progression guild's kill.

4th- the damage is not negligible

6th- the fact that you mention multishoting under viper aspect is the biggest dps loss of your life, i like how you dont even notice that yourself.

You do not Multishot under Viper. Reread what I wrote. You're missing the point of Dancing. Multishot does not incur the Viper damage penalty. You're losing damage on Autoshots fired under the ~1.5 seconds of being in Viper, but that's one or two, max. Meanwhile, in this time frame, you're gaining a net 4.5-5k mana from Multishot projectiles plus any Autoshots fired that also land during Viper. To get this amount of mana back while sitting in Viper, you're going to have to shoot 3 Steadies, which WILL incur the Viper damage penalty. You gain 3-4 globals worth of mana regeneration in one global, without the damage penalty on the intentional shots you're choosing to regen with. So yes, the damage loss is negligible compared to the damage loss if you chose to regen mana with the equivalent of sitting in Viper and casting 3-4 Steadies. Not only would the 3-4 Steadies be halved, but the 4-5 Autoshots cast during this time also would be halved.

Rewatch my video and watch in P2 where I swap to Viper after I fire Multishot. You can see on my MSBT my Multishots are doing full damage and you can see I am gaining a net 4k mana. It's embarrassing you don't know what Aspect Dancing is at this point. The point I am making is Rapid Recouperation is not necessary, and a crutch at the worst. You can sustain mana more than sufficiently without Rapid Recoup if you put the effort in; if you don't want to do this, that's fine, just run Rapid Recoup.

[Fmtansei]

This is true and I agree. I personally can't be arsed changing my spec for one or two bosses, but this is good advice if you only raid log for guild raids. I do PVP on the side and pugs so I will always try to have TSA in my spec just for as much of a universal usage as I can.





I entered with like 80% mana and was fine through all of P2, so it doesn't necessarily even need to be full mana, but close to full.



I should've been more accurate, but this is more towards people progressing DBS HC on Lorda and don't have such short kill times. Rank 1 DBS HC on Lorda is our kill in Illusion with 2:03 time, and yes, there is no mana problems on a fight of this length. DBS is a great boss to use Trap Spec, and if you're progressing it you can easily drop trap on beasts and get like 5-6k mana back every wave, which is sufficient to maintain mana through a progression guild's kill.




You do not Multishot under Viper. Reread what I wrote. You're missing the point of Dancing. Multishot does not incur the Viper damage penalty. You're losing damage on Autoshots fired under the ~1.5 seconds of being in Viper, but that's one or two, max. Meanwhile, in this time frame, you're gaining a net 4.5-5k mana from Multishot projectiles plus any Autoshots fired that also land during Viper. To get this amount of mana back while sitting in Viper, you're going to have to shoot 3 Steadies, which WILL incur the Viper damage penalty. You gain 3-4 globals worth of mana regeneration in one global, without the damage penalty on the intentional shots you're choosing to regen with. So yes, the damage loss is negligible compared to the damage loss if you chose to regen mana with the equivalent of sitting in Viper and casting 3-4 Steadies. Not only would the 3-4 Steadies be halved, but the 4-5 Autoshots cast during this time also would be halved.

Rewatch my video and watch in P2 where I swap to Viper after I fire Multishot. You can see on my MSBT my Multishots are doing full damage and you can see I am gaining a net 4k mana. It's embarrassing you don't know what Aspect Dancing is at this point. The point I am making is Rapid Recouperation is not necessary, and a crutch at the worst. You can sustain mana more than sufficiently without Rapid Recoup if you put the effort in; if you don't want to do this, that's fine, just run Rapid Recoup.

1- ok so you're basically spec'ing in a 0% realm for pvp. makes sense. how about you just get dual spec. and yes ofc you can trap, you should already be trap spec at bis.

2- beasts get reduced dmg via trap lol.

3r- i hope you dont go oom on a 2 min fight rofl

4- i know what stance dancing is lol, but during p1 and p2, youre too close to do so, considering you play properly and play in trap range and not 5000 yards away, your MS hits off before u aspect switch, all you end up doing is losing dps via not being in hawk aspect. even tho you gain mana, you do get a dps loss. doesnt seem like much because you only stay for the gcd, but its still dmg loss.

5- reread yourself, you just said youre getting dmg penalty off autoshots each aspect gcd, which you probably know already, but autos are your top dmg.

now feel free to aspect swap all you want, i do too especially even in 0%'s because of how much volley you need to do. but hey lordaeron stuff i guess xd.