Tank pulls in dungeons, not you. (Lordaeron)

[Loadsamoney]

Playing a Tank on Lordaeron has become increasingly frustrating over the last week because there seems to be a trend of big-peepee DPS or even healers deliberately pulling extra crap when the Tank engages a fight, even if they themselves made a large pull. Maybe it's haughty and pompous on my part, but I am, and always have been since the days of live, a "you pull it, you tank it" kind of Tank, and I steadfastly hold to the ideal that it's the Tanks job, and the Tanks job ALONE, to dictate the pace of a dungeon, assess and make pulls based on what the Tank feels comfortable that he, and his group, can handle.

So now, when I get a group that has an aggro-happy DPS or healer making things more chaotic then they need to be, I give them a warning. If it continues, I either bubble and let the mob eat them alive, or if they can handle it, I just ignore them and go pull the next group of enemies while they're busy scrambling so I can get the dungeon finished faster and get to the next one. If someone happens to die, don't care, there's a lesson to be learned.

Again, maybe it's kind of a butt thing to do, but so is pulling without the Tanks permission or knowledge and making their job harder than it needs to be. Tanking is already a thankless job that carries a lot of blame when it goes wrong, so you trying to do their job for them is not appreciated, especially if the group is already doing well and doesn't need to speed things up. Don't be one of those huntard DPS's that can't exercise a little patience. Best case scenario is you annoy the tank, they leave, and you sit in queue for an hour waiting for another one to continue. Worst case scenario, the group wipes and disbands, and everyone is left with no emblems and a repair bill after the fact.

If you want them to make bigger pulls or speed things up, let them know, but stop trying to interfere with the Tanks job and let them do what they're supposed to be doing.

[angrylol]

Some healers, instead of writing "hey, you can pull double that, I can handle it", they get all mad and bothered in silence.
Some damagers don't understand since they never tanked. But they are quick to cry about how que is so long, because there are no tanks, after they have scared a dozen tanks into never queing solo, only with group.

However you must reevaluate your pace also, push yourself a little, try to find the fastest pace you and your group can handle.

[Loadsamoney]

Some healers, instead of writing "hey, you can pull double that, I can handle it", they get all mad and bothered in silence.
Some damagers don't understand since they never tanked. But they are quick to cry about how que is so long, because there are no tanks, after they have scared a dozen tanks into never queing solo, only with group.

However you must reevaluate your pace also, push yourself a little, try to find the fastest pace you and your group can handle.

I always go as fast as I feel I, and the team, can comfortably handle. If they ask me to speed things up, I'm happy to do so, but if they start pulling for me, it becomes a problem, especially if I've already asked them once not to do it. I wiped a team the other day by pulling Loken when they were far away dealing with something I never pulled, because the healer decided to run ahead and grab more. Ended up soloing Loken fine, but they weren't happy about it. Tough.

I will also mention, the one exception for me is Death Knights. I'll let them pull lone enemies and stragglers for me, because they can Death Grip them right into my Consecration. I'm happy when I have a DK gathering all the loose ends for me.

[AzureOrc]

Many say it's unfair that tanks don't have to wait for a dungeon in a queue for an hour and sometimes longer, I say it's a fair compensation for extreme amount of stress an average tank experiences in dungeons, the stress that comes not from the dungeon itself but from your party members.
I'm glad that I don't have to endure someone's lack of manners and can peacefully leave at the beginning of a dungeon knowing I will find another group instantly after a penalty expires.

[Loadsamoney]

Many say it's unfair that tanks don't have to wait for a dungeon in a queue for an hour and sometimes longer, I say it's a fair compensation for extreme amount of stress an average tank experiences in dungeons, the stress that comes not from the dungeon itself but from your party members.
I'm glad that I don't have to endure someone's lack of manners and can peacefully leave at the beginning of a dungeon knowing I will find another group instantly after a penalty expires.

Trust me, I don't like making enemies out of people, because sooner or later you meet them again in RDF, and eventually someone is going to remember you.

But I just don't have any tolerance for stupidity. If you do that kind of nonsense in a random dungeon, how can I be sure you won't pull that same crap in a raid, where it REALLY matters?

[TotemsAreGreat]

Being a DK tank is rough. I have an unholy spec for dungeon tanking that maximizes AoE damage and provides a 50% AoE slow on the pull but it still feels like a worse Paladin tank, despite my best efforts. So when someone else decides to pull more while my runes and/or DnD is on cooldown I get a little frustrated cause there's nothing I can do to help.

[Loadsamoney]

Being a DK tank is rough. I have an unholy spec for dungeon tanking that maximizes AoE damage and provides a 50% AoE slow on the pull but it still feels like a worse Paladin tank, despite my best efforts. So when someone else decides to pull more while my runes and/or DnD is on cooldown I get a little frustrated cause there's nothing I can do to help.

I'm actually struggling to hold aggro with large pulls on this new Prot Pally build. It's 51/20 with no Seal of Command, trading it out for stronger single-target damage to compete with high-gs DPS and Shadowmourne players, and emphasizes the use of Libram of Valiance's buff to intensify the power of Consecration to shore up the AoE threat. It's gold against three targets and I can finesse four or even five with careful targeting and taunting as needed, but Consecration generally isn't enough to hold aggro against things my HotR doesn't chain to, especially if one of the DPS is going ham on it or someone is blasting some serious AoE of their own, like a Boomie.

It might get better as my gs and my Strength (and by proxy my Spellpower) improves, but large pulls can get hairy on this build at times, so I try to keep it a bit more concise. Pull 3-5 at a time, get control, and just as were about to kill the current pull, I start moving forward looking for the next pull while the team cleans up the stragglers. As opposed to making big pulls, I simply try to keep the pulls steady and controllable but always coming.

[Skoobydoo]

I steadfastly hold to the ideal that it's the Tanks job, and the Tanks job ALONE, to dictate the pace of a dungeon.

That's some power complex and its very cringe. Parties job it to complete the dungeons, who pulls don't matter as long as you can do that. People who run in front and pull mobs usually do it because they can handle it and if your group wipe because of it they would stop doing it. But if you actively don't wanna take aggro because " you pull you tank" and just ignore the mobs that are attacking others, you are the one who sabotage the group. No one like players like that and it's extremely cringe.

[Kovachut]

That's some power complex and its very cringe. Parties job it to complete the dungeons, who pulls don't matter as long as you can do that. People who run in front and pull mobs usually do it because they can handle it and if your group wipe because of it they would stop doing it. But if you actively don't wanna take aggro because " you pull you tank" and just ignore the mobs that are attacking others, you are the one who sabotage the group. No one like players like that and it's extremely cringe.

This^.

If a dps doesn't know the group's limits, and he causes a wipe, he will be mocked and scolded as Scoobydoo said, and he might even be kicked. However, if no one dies, and the trash dies quickly, then all is well.

[Loadsamoney]

That's some power complex and its very cringe. Parties job it to complete the dungeons, who pulls don't matter as long as you can do that. People who run in front and pull mobs usually do it because they can handle it and if your group wipe because of it they would stop doing it. But if you actively don't wanna take aggro because " you pull you tank" and just ignore the mobs that are attacking others, you are the one who sabotage the group. No one like players like that and it's extremely cringe.

If people want to be mad about it, fine, they have the right to be mad. But I think it’s extremely rude to show up your tank and pull ahead of them, not just to the tank but to the rest of your team, especially the healer if they’re not expecting it. You’re putting the entire team in danger by pulling extra crap ahead of the tank, and for what, your ego? To save a few seconds off your frosties?

Even if nothing goes wrong, it gives people a bad impression of *****s who pull out of line. After all, if someone not tanking is going to pull crap in Halls of Lightning, how can I be sure they won’t do that exact same nonsense in Icecrown Citadel?

[Skoobydoo]

If people want to be mad about it, fine, they have the right to be mad. But I think it’s extremely rude to show up your tank and pull ahead of them, not just to the tank but to the rest of your team, especially the healer if they’re not expecting it. You’re putting the entire team in danger by pulling extra crap ahead of the tank, and for what, your ego? To save a few seconds off your frosties?

Even if nothing goes wrong, it gives people a bad impression of *****s who pull out of line. After all, if someone not tanking is going to pull crap in Halls of Lightning, how can I be sure they won’t do that exact same nonsense in Icecrown Citadel?

As Kovachut also said if they put too much pressure on the group they would be kicked. But if its all good and others don't mind its only you who have problem with it for no real reason. "pulling mobs is been rude" again this is some cringe ego thing. Your job as a team is to finish the dungeons, not to deal with tank been offended because you pull extra mobs. The ICC example is really dumb, the difficulty in dungeons and raid is complete different. You can tank dungeons as DPS, i have done it as ret paladin countless times. If DPS start pulling in ICC they will get 1 shot and most likely instantly kicked, that's not a thing. You can do you, but i am telling you "you pull, you tank" is not a good mentality to have if you wanna be a good player.

[Kovachut]

Just to add more to what Skoobydoo said, I'd like to give actual examples of where I prepull and where I let the tank do it. In a nutshell: there are mobs that don't give any trouble to the group, and then there are such which should be taken care of one wave at a time.

• Ahn'Kahet - here, I let the tank handle most of the trash, since some of them can be quite nasty (especially the patrol at start that pulls players and casts a mana-draining poison). The only exception are the skulking geists on the platform before Taldaram. They don't do ****, so I don't mind prepulling them. Off-topic: Shout-out to you mages and rogues, who click on the orbs and use Vanish/Blink so that we can skip the mobs on the balconies.
• Azjol - I don't prepull the trash before the first boss, but I typically prepull the one in the Hadronox room.
• Drak - The only trash I prepull are the bats after Novos. I don't touch the undead prior to the first boss because sometimes even the tank doesn't know his own limits and pulls too many. Speaking of tank mistakes, very often tanks (at least those in my groups) pull the entire trash pack before the final boss that casts fear... Yeah, I don't touch those as well.
• Gundrak - I let the tank pull what he wants. The snakes are annoying as they are, and I don't want to risk anything. Same goes to the rhinos before the final boss. Off-topic: Shout-out to the groups, where we used water walking or path of ice and skipped the trash near the water.
• HoL - The only mobs, which I prepull here, are the Earth Elementals in the forge room while we're running towards the stairs. I do it when the tank is midway in the area, and I just help out by gathering the rest of the earth elementals to him. Other than that, I don't really prepull anything here - the vrykuls in the hallway are annoying as they are, and even in small numbers can cause a lot of trouble (e.g. on Frostmourne when people are undergeared). Same goes to the room after the second boss. The mobs in the starting area jump to different places, so it's meaningless to prepull something that doesn't stack with the others.
• HoR - there's nothing for me to prepull here, as it's just a scripted event.
• HoS - I don't prepull the trash in the first room, since they're casters. The trash, which I see myself prepulling, are the small stone critters in the earth room. They die within 2-3 hits and don't do ****, so I don't mind pulling an extra pack every now and then. Same goes to the 4 golems near Brann. If the tank takes two of them, I prepull the other two (but not on Frostmourne if the group is undergeared). Off-topic: Shout-out to the amazing tanks, who LoS the trash in this instance.
• PoS - I don't prepull the majority of the trash here, since some of them need to be focused down or taken care of one wave at a time. Also, the mobs on the slope are annoying as they are, and I have never pulled the second while we're still dealing with the first. The only trash I don't mind prepulling for the tank are the skellies in the frost path.
• Stratholme - zombies die quickly. I don't prepull the main trash packs in the starting streets because other people are too slow, and I don't want to risk anything. However, I don't mind prepulling some packs for the tank in the area before the final boss.
• FoS - the only thing I prepull are the spirits right before the last boss. The rest of the mobs are annoying as they are, and I don't prepull more.
• Nexus - I don't prepull anything here with the exception of the Mechanical Golems with my drake. If I fly near them, they get aggroed, and they DON'T aggro the surrounding trash. On Frostmourne, I used to do it quite frequently.
• Oculus - The trash, which I find comfortable prepulling, are the mana wraiths under the balcony (they die extremely fast) and some plant packs before the Stone boss (they're grouped together and don't cause too much trouble). I leave the rest of the trash to be handled by the tank. Off-topic: Shout-out to the amazing tanks, who LoS the mobs in this instance.
• ToC - I don't prepull the trash before the 2nd boss; the rest is scripted.
• Utgarde Keep - I don't mind prepulling the humanoids in the first two rooms. They die rather quickly and don't cause too much trouble. I also don't mind prepulling the ghouls after Keleseth and those prior to the 2nd boss for that exact same reason. I let the tank pull the other trash.
• Utgarde Pin. - After we skip the trash near the table and gather around the campfire, I don't mind prepulling an extra pack for the tank when we engage the trash there. Since the rest of the trash is annoying as it is, I let the tank pull it.
• Violet Hold - scripted event, and there's nothing for me to prepull.

Once again, deciding where and when to prepull depends on the circumstances - types of trash and their abilities, how geared the group is, whether everyone is gathered around etc. I play as a feral cat, and very often I pull aggro from the tanks. In those cases, I just use defensives - http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=22812, http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=50322, or even go in bear form just to survive. As for the healer's mana - I give them http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=29166 on CD and limit mana breaks. As you can see, I don't mind affecting the pacing of the dungeon especially when I turn on some Eurobeat music and go with the rhythm.

[Blind]

Honestly your attitude is quite toxic to begin with. There's no law or rule dictating "only tanks are allowed to pull".
If your heal and dps feel comfortable with pulling additional stuff and there's no wipes happening - why not just be a good sport, tag along and do the dungeon a bit faster?

Ironically a couple friends and I decided to queue for rdf a few days ago and we ended up with a tank sharing your attitude. After about five minutes into the dungeon he decided it's best he insults us and afks because apparently we hit his pride too hard when he felt useless with three bis people just shredding things and not caring about his attempts to tank a mob which died in two seconds.
He got a couple days off due to refusing to play the dungeon from a friendly GM afterwards. He could've just kept quiet, but I guess his inflated ego prevented him from just keeping his mouth shut.

And concluding someone who pulls additional stuff in dungeons would do the same in a raid is...well, yeah. Makes me wonder if you've even done any raids so far.

[Loadsamoney]

Honestly your attitude is quite toxic to begin with. There's no law or rule dictating "only tanks are allowed to pull".
If your heal and dps feel comfortable with pulling additional stuff and there's no wipes happening - why not just be a good sport, tag along and do the dungeon a bit faster?

Ironically a couple friends and I decided to queue for rdf a few days ago and we ended up with a tank sharing your attitude. After about five minutes into the dungeon he decided it's best he insults us and afks because apparently we hit his pride too hard when he felt useless with three bis people just shredding things and not caring about his attempts to tank a mob which died in two seconds.
He got a couple days off due to refusing to play the dungeon from a friendly GM afterwards. He could've just kept quiet, but I guess his inflated ego prevented him from just keeping his mouth shut.

And concluding someone who pulls additional stuff in dungeons would do the same in a raid is...well, yeah. Makes me wonder if you've even done any raids so far.

How do I know someone pulling trash willy nilly in a 5-man Heroic won't do the same in a 10-man raid? First impressions are everything, and not everybody has common sense.

I've raided on Live, haven't done so yet on Lordaeron (except for VoA) because I haven't found the right guild yet. Looking for an entry-level raiding guild starting a new core team for ICC10/ToC10 that I can start from the beginning with.

And we'll just have to disagree, because I don't see it as toxic behavior. There is such a thing as "etiquette."

[Tolvana]

Usually the ninja puller is doing so bad threat that adds come to other dps and healers. I atleast hate it if I cant do full potential dps because of these people who make adds bounce everywhere. And they even think it makes runs faster...