WotLK Warrior bis and why?

[Beanlord]

It's well known all over warmane



The fact that you don't know about this bug yet comment on everyone being wrong about everything that goes against your opinion astounds me

Considering how illiterate you are when it comes to this game, would you mind not posting on the forums anymore?

https://youtu.be/1kEB8tMR5YM

[Persivaln]

Considering how illiterate you are when it comes to this game, would you mind not posting on the forums anymore?

https://youtu.be/1kEB8tMR5YM

Wait for him to come up with whatever BS he finds suitable) like "REEEEEE, there is dual wield bug that whole warmane knows about, where you need hard cap expertise for dodge"

[OhieMitzen]

Wait for him to come up with whatever BS he finds suitable) like "REEEEEE, there is dual wield bug that whole warmane knows about, where you need hard cap expertise for dodge"

"It wasn't a warrior with 2 x 2h's"
"It wasn't a boss"
"It was a DK with single 1h sword"
"He jumped on defile and it had no effect, so clearly it's modified client"

IIRC there was that kind of bug, but that's ancient history and fixed ages ago.

[Bastardbottle]

It's well known all over warmane

It WAS a fact that it was bugged but it already got fixed way many years ago. It cringes me that sometimes my attacks are being dodged with my 25 exp ret.

[xTheLichKingx]

It WAS a fact that it was bugged but it already got fixed way many years ago. It cringes me that sometimes my attacks are being dodged with my 25 exp ret.

It was not many years ago, it was actually in a patch recently, take a look at warmane patch notes.

@the morons commeting "haha look fishbro giving us attention let's flame him more" the answer is no, as bastardbottle and ohiemitzen just mentioned, it was a fact that expertise was bugged and only needed 22.

"wHyIsItNoTiNgUiDeStHoUgH!!!!"
This is the stupidest question I ever seen. "Why is there no guides based around a private server bug reducing the required expertise needed" and the answer is in the question and that answer is: "It's a bug"

Care to flame me some more? Any other posts of mine you're going to come to a belittle and degrade me when I'm right?

Also beanlord and persivlan, do you guys do anything besides commenting on every single warmane forum post in existance?

[Beanlord]

It WAS a fact that it was bugged but it already got fixed way many years ago. It cringes me that sometimes my attacks are being dodged with my 25 exp ret.

Indeed, it WAS a bug. Many years before fishbro even played on the server. This speaks volumes about how much misinformation he's been fed and is feeding in return to players here, in-game and on discords.

Also beanlord and persivlan, do you guys do anything besides commenting on every single warmane forum post in existance?

I was correcting the false information you're providing to the community. Like 22 expertise cap, crit > haste for unholy dk and wandering plague bugreport. It isn't my fault that your knowledge of the game is that low.

[xTheLichKingx]

I was correcting the false information you're providing to the community. Like 22 expertise cap, crit > haste for unholy dk and wandering plague bugreport. It isn't my fault that your knowledge of the game is that low.

Crit is by FAR much better than haste for unholy dk, and you "correcting misinformation" is you spewing your aweful opinion around as if it's 100% factual.

My knowledge of the game will be proven correct in retail when players play correctly. Your knowledge of the game will always be limited to giving misinformation to this small area of warmane's forums.

Crit benefits everything on unholy dk from autos, to your ghoul, to procing wandering plague more (which has a more than 2x damage multiplier as it deals damage to that mob + every mob around it) and has a 2.3x damage multiplier on scourge strike and 2.0x damage multiplier on spells. The ONLY thing that haste is good for on unholy dk over crit is gargoyle gaining a marginally small increase in damage, and gargoyle is a nice chunk of uhdk dps but in the grand scheme of things is less than 10% so a 2% dps in 10 is 0.02% damage, which a single extra crit on PS/SS or a single wandering plague proc will 100% improve it.

Anyways let's not take this topic somewhere it doesn't belong. Why is it we take Agility items on warrior at full bis? Answer that question and then answer the follow up question: why not furthermore take the small attack power reduction to further increase crit, as increasing crit should scale exponentially like arpen as more crit = more damage getting increased with 2.75x damage multiplier and the more crit rating/agility the less chances you have to not get a crit.

Personally I've had higher dps increases going from 55% crit to 58% crit and from 52% crit to 58% crit using more agility items than strength items. I'm considering every option to increase my crit such as using PP leather belt instead of coldwraith belt for even more crit.

I've also noticed crit rating has no diminishing returns and I was wondering is this a bug? I'm not even sure if agility has diminishing returns on crit either.

[Beanlord]

Crit is by FAR much better than haste for unholy dk, and you "correcting misinformation" is you spewing your aweful opinion around as if it's 100% factual.

In all those instances I have mentioned it is, yes. It has been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever.

My knowledge of the game will be proven correct in retail when players play correctly. Your knowledge of the game will always be limited to giving misinformation to this small area of warmane's forums.

Your knowledge of the game is very tiny as evidence by the fact that only a month ago you discovered that your ghoul can actually crit. By the fact that you were arguing, in this very thread, that the expertise cap on warmane was 22, when it is not. By the fact that you don't know wandering plague had an actual internal cooldown. By the fact that you claim crit > haste for unholy, while the retail you love so much already settled this question :).

https://web.archive.org/web/20160514...7%20%7C%202.97

warmane copy of the same guide: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....20SM,-Strength

You are incredibly full of yourself. The fact that people are making so much fun of you and proving you wrong at almost every single point you make should be giving you some ****ing hints by now.

I've also noticed crit rating has no diminishing returns and I was wondering is this a bug? I'm not even sure if agility has diminishing returns on crit either.

Hell, you don't even know what stats in this game have diminishing returns. Just to save you some trouble, no crit rating doesn't have DR, nor is it meant to. No, agility to crit conversion doesn't have DR, nor is it meant to.

[Gnimo]

Once Heroic Strike que made all of your offhand attacks have 8% miss chance instead of normal dual wield 27%, there is no such thing as "soft crit cap" for Warriors.
You also forget that Armor increases your Attack Power, so going for Leather over Plate items will result in even less attack power overall.

Truth is that one or two item changes wont ever affect your DPS in game, especially due to a lot of other huge RNG factors you have no control over.
This does not change the "BIS" list that has been out for years, that originated from both Logs of and info people had on old Wrath of the Lich King retail realms (they will most likely remain exactly the same on WotLK classic, unless Blizzard decides to change the game itself).
This list includes: Aldriana's, Coldwraith, Apocalypse's, Penumbra, Ashen, Frostbrood, DBW, STS, Shadowmourne, Glorenzelg, Fal'inrush, with 2 items being "optional/personal preference" for Cloak and Wrist slots: Shadowvault vs Sylvanas'/Vereesa's and Umbrage vs Toskk's (I also prefer using Signet instead of Frostbrood for 6.01% hit and using 2/3 Precision for again, extra Crit, but I know its considered a "suboptimal" build, I just dont care xD).
The last but not least thing you could argue that can be "optional/personal preference" are Orange gems in all the Yellow slots, where you have a choice between 10strength+10crit vs 10strength+10haste.
You can also argue that Sims function with a margins of error so your Crit build is actually better, and have your copium on the top.
This again, from my point of view, wont ever result in one of the Warriors doing more DPS than the other by a huge amount.

Anything else that deviates more from this above is a huge personal choice reach.
I personally have nothing against people trying out new ideas, but at least be objective when you do it.
Calling others "bad" or "ignorant" is not a smart thing to do, because even tho I myself prefer to go "Crit over Haste" on most of my chars, I understand fully that according to Sim and other data, Haste is slightly better at best in slot stage of the game (nothing to lose your head over, but 0.11 is still better than 0.1).
This also goes for Unholy Death Knight. Haste is better, the end, but as said, I prefer to go extra Crit over Haste at end game Shadowmourne gear, mainly because whenever I had my Scourge Strikes crit a lot, I had more overall damage done by a lot.
This again, does not mean that Crit is better, again, its not, Haste is better, the end, but its my personal choice and I just gave you my reasons for it.
I will say just like I did now "according to Sims and data Haste is better, but I prefer Crit because of x y z" and leave others to decide what they want to chose (same goes for Expertise cap on both Unholy and Frost DKs, trying not to go too off the topic).
Stat that has a diminishing return, does not automatically mean that stat is bad.

I also want to add that if multiple people give you reasonable arguments and try to point that you are "in the wrong", maybe its not them, maybe its you that is actually "in the wrong".
Last but not least, you cant expect people to take you seriously when you fail to reproduce such an obvious test that 26 expertise is an actual cap, and has been for a long time now.
Even if the cap was actually 22, using a simple Google search could provide you with the actual info, using a bug tracker you can report it, there is no need ever to go for the "bugged" cap, or anything similar, because as everything on Warmane, it will get fixed eventually.

Maybe take a step back and chill for a moment.
There are A LOT of people spreading dumb info that can be tested in game within minutes and/or being instantly dismissed using a grain of common sense.

Again, there is nothing wrong with having "good/bad" ideas, and trying to "reinvent the wheel" just as long as you are objective.
There is a huge difference between trying to improve and helping others do the same, and trying to be that special snowflake that breaks the mold with some crazy build (been there, tried that, failed).
I can respect any "dumb" idea just as long as its objective, because an objective person will always admit mistakes because they are a normal thing when trying to achieve greatness.
Most of the times, when it comes to WotLK, its just better to save yourself the time and money and actually just follow the "bis" lists people already lost a lot of hair on, and use that time to max out performance and skill.

Anyway, this is a lot of text that is ~90% useless, because people will just ignore it and keep on believing a lie that somehow they are right, this is just another "bad private server" and that "classic wotlk will be an entirely different game with a completely different giga fun awesome meta where just that one special my own spec everyone didnt believe in will work". :D

[OhieMitzen]

It was not many years ago, it was actually in a patch recently, take a look at warmane patch notes.

Fixed parry expertise cap being slightly lower than intended - June 2019

Mobs can only parry from front. So it would've been dubbed more as tank expertise cap. Not universal expertise cap.
Back in 2017 the expertise cap was bit over 26 for a brief time.

There is more recent expertise related fix:

Fixed Army of the dead ghouls not scaling with dks haste/hit/expertise - December 2021

Went all the way back to September 2015, and all expertise mentions after that were related to class abilities (Dancing Rune Weapon) or pets. Not about the cap itself being too low.

I dunno what you refer as "recently" but yeah..

[xTheLichKingx]

Once Heroic Strike que made all of your offhand attacks have 8% miss chance instead of normal dual wield 27%, there is no such thing as "soft crit cap" for Warriors.
You also forget that Armor increases your Attack Power, so going for Leather over Plate items will result in even less attack power overall.

Truth is that one or two item changes wont ever affect your DPS in game, especially due to a lot of other huge RNG factors you have no control over.
This does not change the "BIS" list that has been out for years, that originated from both Logs of and info people had on old Wrath of the Lich King retail realms (they will most likely remain exactly the same on WotLK classic, unless Blizzard decides to change the game itself).
This list includes: Aldriana's, Coldwraith, Apocalypse's, Penumbra, Ashen, Frostbrood, DBW, STS, Shadowmourne, Glorenzelg, Fal'inrush, with 2 items being "optional/personal preference" for Cloak and Wrist slots: Shadowvault vs Sylvanas'/Vereesa's and Umbrage vs Toskk's (I also prefer using Signet instead of Frostbrood for 6.01% hit and using 2/3 Precision for again, extra Crit, but I know its considered a "suboptimal" build, I just dont care xD).
The last but not least thing you could argue that can be "optional/personal preference" are Orange gems in all the Yellow slots, where you have a choice between 10strength+10crit vs 10strength+10haste.
You can also argue that Sims function with a margins of error so your Crit build is actually better, and have your copium on the top.
This again, from my point of view, wont ever result in one of the Warriors doing more DPS than the other by a huge amount.

Anything else that deviates more from this above is a huge personal choice reach.
I personally have nothing against people trying out new ideas, but at least be objective when you do it.
Calling others "bad" or "ignorant" is not a smart thing to do, because even tho I myself prefer to go "Crit over Haste" on most of my chars, I understand fully that according to Sim and other data, Haste is slightly better at best in slot stage of the game (nothing to lose your head over, but 0.11 is still better than 0.1).
This also goes for Unholy Death Knight. Haste is better, the end, but as said, I prefer to go extra Crit over Haste at end game Shadowmourne gear, mainly because whenever I had my Scourge Strikes crit a lot, I had more overall damage done by a lot.
This again, does not mean that Crit is better, again, its not, Haste is better, the end, but its my personal choice and I just gave you my reasons for it.
I will say just like I did now "according to Sims and data Haste is better, but I prefer Crit because of x y z" and leave others to decide what they want to chose (same goes for Expertise cap on both Unholy and Frost DKs, trying not to go too off the topic).
Stat that has a diminishing return, does not automatically mean that stat is bad.

I also want to add that if multiple people give you reasonable arguments and try to point that you are "in the wrong", maybe its not them, maybe its you that is actually "in the wrong".
Last but not least, you cant expect people to take you seriously when you fail to reproduce such an obvious test that 26 expertise is an actual cap, and has been for a long time now.
Even if the cap was actually 22, using a simple Google search could provide you with the actual info, using a bug tracker you can report it, there is no need ever to go for the "bugged" cap, or anything similar, because as everything on Warmane, it will get fixed eventually.

Maybe take a step back and chill for a moment.
There are A LOT of people spreading dumb info that can be tested in game within minutes and/or being instantly dismissed using a grain of common sense.

Again, there is nothing wrong with having "good/bad" ideas, and trying to "reinvent the wheel" just as long as you are objective.
There is a huge difference between trying to improve and helping others do the same, and trying to be that special snowflake that breaks the mold with some crazy build (been there, tried that, failed).
I can respect any "dumb" idea just as long as its objective, because an objective person will always admit mistakes because they are a normal thing when trying to achieve greatness.
Most of the times, when it comes to WotLK, its just better to save yourself the time and money and actually just follow the "bis" lists people already lost a lot of hair on, and use that time to max out performance and skill.

Anyway, this is a lot of text that is ~90% useless, because people will just ignore it and keep on believing a lie that somehow they are right, this is just another "bad private server" and that "classic wotlk will be an entirely different game with a completely different giga fun awesome meta where just that one special my own spec everyone didnt believe in will work". :D

Simulators =/= real world practical results.
22 exp as cap was a simple statement refering to an old bug, and I am quite aware expertise cap is 26 so Idk where you get this idea that I don't know what exp cap is.

[Beanlord]

Simulators =/= real world practical results.
22 exp as cap was a simple statement refering to an old bug, and I am quite aware expertise cap is 26 so Idk where you get this idea that I don't know what exp cap is.

Well bis list is wrong for warmane specifically as there is the 22 expertise is cap instead of 26 bug, unless that bug was fixed.

Yeah man, wtf. How could you assume this mildly schizophrenic person wasn't aware of what the expertise cap is?

[Gnimo]

"Simulators =/= real world practical results."
That is exactly how I looked at them, and fun fact, once you look at them, and fool around in game a bit, dummy, bosses, just as long as you are objective, you kind of end up on almost exactly the same result in the end. :D

Well bis list is wrong for warmane specifically as there is the 22 expertise is cap instead of 26 bug, unless that bug was fixed.

(Persivaln: Can you prove it? Expertise cap 26 due to bosses being lvl 83, so melees need to bypass additional 1,5% to base 5% of dodge. Can you give link to bugtracker report about 22 expertise being dodge cap against raid bosses?)>>>

It's well known all over warmane

(Beanlord: This is not true - expertise being bugged.)>>>

The fact that you don't know about this bug yet comment on everyone being wrong about everything that goes against your opinion astounds me

(Bastardbottle: It WAS a fact that it was bugged but it already got fixed way many years ago. It cringes me that sometimes my attacks are being dodged with my 25 exp ret.)>>>

It was not many years ago, it was actually in a patch recently, take a look at warmane patch notes.

(after my post)>>>

22 exp as cap was a simple statement refering to an old bug, and I am quite aware expertise cap is 26 so Idk where you get this idea that I don't know what exp cap is.

I really have no clue where I got that idea from to be honest... Can someone confirm if I am missing something here because this doesnt seem right to me?

But yea, let me say its 99% useless now... xD
Best of luck.

[pingu0]

this reads like a repressed kid complaining to mom that others won't play with you. :D Prot Warr is viable we get it. Thanks for PSA.

[xTheLichKingx]

Yeah man, wtf. How could you assume this mildly schizophrenic person wasn't aware of what the expertise cap is?

Mildly ******ed person completely ignores quote with conditions and flames content creator he doesn't like.

"Well bis list is wrong for warmane specifically as there is the 22 expertise is cap instead of 26 bug, unless that bug was fixed."
"unless that bug was fixed." -should be ignored to showcase quote as justification to flame.

Like are you really this dumb? The condition in the statement was "unless that bug was fixed" and it's quite obvious that I was unaware the bug was fixed.


Yeah, at this point I realize it's just my fans in this post trying to seek my attention out through any way they can, even if it's negative attention.