1. June 6, 2022  

    Warrior bis and why?

    We all know what warrior bis is but check this out.

    Why do we stop going for agility/crit/atk power/arpen items and get strength items simply due to the crit soft-cap (glancing blow cap) such as:

    -Coldwraith Links (choosing strength over agility + attack power) instead of PP belt
    -Aldrianas + T10 pants (Choosing to overcap expertise and get haste) when LDW pants + T10 gloves is an option (Getting crit + agility on pants and str + crit on gloves eliminating haste entirely and giving more crit, and Overcaps hit, allowing the change of 2 points from precision to enrage for a 5-enrage talent build)
    Edit: Aldrianas + t10 pants overcaps exp for orc and therefor I was correct, LDW pants + T10 gloves is the better option for orc with mourne.

    We could even take it a step further and get rid of the RS25 boots for Marrowgar boots using the hit overcap from the T10 swap here getting EVEN MORE crit (ofc that's less overall stats though)

    So at the end of the day, I'm asking why we value boosting our white-melee auto damage more than our ability damage? We don't even go for hit cap on our white autos and we allow them to constantly miss, so it seems pointless to stop gunning for crit due to glancing blow crit cap.

    Edit: Not responding further to the 2 morons flaming me with their comments below telling me how much of a dumbass I am instead of simply answering my question. "Hey can you explain this" response: "stfu ****** if u don't know dont post" -responses
    If you don't wish to contribute to the topic in a positive way don't comment please.
    Edited: June 9, 2022

  2. June 6, 2022  
    Welp, your message already showed that you know little to nothing about warrior and game mechanics.
    You melee attacks cap is also your ability cap (except for hit, but once you are geared, your melee hit cap becomes ability cap).
    Why use leather gloves + plate legs? Because it is much better stat gain. Same with belts, plate belt have better sockets. All gear is tied together for maximum efficiency.

  3. June 6, 2022  
    We all know what warrior bis is but check this out.
    Pretty much like all of your "look at me, I reinvented the wheel!"-threads started till they got curbstomped by your lack of facts or numbers.

    Why do we stop going for agility/crit/atk power/arpen items and get strength items simply due to the crit soft-cap (glancing blow cap) such as:

    -Coldwraith Links (choosing strength over agility + attack power) instead of PP belt
    -Aldrianas + T10 pants (Choosing to overcap expertise and get haste) when LDW pants + T10 gloves is an option (Getting crit + agility on pants and str + crit on gloves eliminating haste entirely and giving more crit, and Overcaps hit, allowing the change of 2 points from precision to enrage for a 5-enrage talent build)
    We could even take it a step further and get rid of the RS25 boots for Marrowgar boots using the hit overcap from the T10 swap here getting EVEN MORE crit
    If you knew about things like "attack-table", "item-budget" and how a bis warrior in general works you'd know why all of your suggestions are bad.
    Hints: Let's use lower ilvl leather boots over the only perfectly dps-statted plate item in the game and let's go for mail pants with inherently useless intelligence over the ones leaving you at almost perfect expertise...while also using gloves overcapping hit by like 50.

    So at the end of the day, I'm asking why we value boosting our white-melee auto damage more than our ability damage? We don't even go for hit cap on our white autos and we allow them to constantly miss, so it seems pointless to stop gunning for crit due to glancing blow crit cap.
    Your mainhand literally never misses at 8% and your offhand requires 27% hit to never miss. Go figure why hitrating past 8% might be (almost) useless.

    I'd suggest you read up how the attack-table works, how heroic strike/cleave affect your mainhand autos and then you might be able to figure why your suggestions are, like usual, terrible. Or you know you could throw them in a sim, test your setup in a few raids providing actual numbers or at least provide anything but a bad idea.

  4. June 8, 2022  
    Take this with a grain of salt (especially numbers), since it has been a while since I used to play:

    -We value our AA so much because its our main source of dmg.. by far. Heroic strike does AA dmg + around 500 and HS is around 70% of our dmg + OH another 15%. (sorry dont remember the numbers anymore, but its by far)
    -When you have HS/Cleave qued it counts as ability. (I think there was a bug that made OH also count as ability for hit cap when HS is qued, no idea if its fixxed or not, but something similar used to be on retail as well) Once you do enough dmg to have enough rage for HS constantly you only need 8% hit.
    -Higher ilvl gear means you get more stats in general, thats why rs boots are ussually picked.
    -Leather gear provides more dps stats than plate gear (plate gear has more stamina and total stats on gear is equal) - thats why leather gloves are better.
    -Not sure what race you play, but ppl often forget, that Orc bis is different than all other races (due to exp from racial with SM) - you get mail legs from lady and t10 gloves, maybe different boots too, dont remember.

    That all being said... there are actually multiple ways of gearing. Bis in simulation is just that. Differences from swapping 1-2 best items are smaller than a margin of error. (I preffered to play with slightly higher AP / lower haste gear myself - using both saurfang wrists and toc25hc cloak instead of higher ilvl alternatives. Doing pretty much the same dps.)
    Edited: June 9, 2022

  5. June 9, 2022  
    Take this with a grain of salt (especially numbers), since it has been a while since I used to play:
    -Not sure what race you play, but ppl often forget, that Orc bis is different than all other races (due to exp from racial with SM) - you get mail legs from lady and t10 gloves, maybe different boots too, dont remember.
    Thank you for pointing that out, so I am right "with my stupid theory crafting" as these 2 flamed me for, and I was correct to assume t10 gloves + Lady pants is bis for orc with mourne, as I am orc with mourne. It's funny how I get flamed for being stupid whilst being top dps in every raid, with best tactics too.

  6. June 9, 2022  
    Thank you for pointing that out, so I am right "with my stupid theory crafting" as these 2 flamed me for, and I was correct to assume t10 gloves + Lady pants is bis for orc with mourne, as I am orc with mourne. It's funny how I get flamed for being stupid whilst being top dps in every raid, with best tactics too.
    And then you realize there is no "orc bis" setup since simply ignoring 5 expertise for mainhand is still superior. The only truly interchangeable parts are umbrage/toskks and togc/gunship cloak.

    Also like I said: Come on. Provide numbers, videos anything! You're simply claiming to be "the best" while proving nothing.

  7. June 9, 2022  
    Some math - 5 expertise is achievable by 2 gems, thus you'll have to gem 2x20 expertise in your gear to be expertise capped on both hands, if you cap MH only at 26 (you do not want your offhand to be dodged and leaving you without any rage).
    And if you try to run with LDW hc legs, you'll have to gem a lot more expertise because T10 legs alone give you 106 rating (13.25 expertise to be precise). How TF you gonna compensate it? Not to mention that each and every hunter will mock and report you.
    Won't say anything about your claim of being "top dps in every raid", but your lack of knowledge how to play any class (yeah, because your BEST FROST DK tank guide made while DK sub laugh on you) simply nullifies such possibility.

  8. Some math - 5 expertise is achievable by 2 gems, thus you'll have to gem 2x20 expertise in your gear to be expertise capped on both hands, if you cap MH only at 26 (you do not want your offhand to be dodged and leaving you without any rage).
    And if you try to run with LDW hc legs, you'll have to gem a lot more expertise because T10 legs alone give you 106 rating (13.25 expertise to be precise). How TF you gonna compensate it? Not to mention that each and every hunter will mock and report you.
    Won't say anything about your claim of being "top dps in every raid", but your lack of knowledge how to play any class (yeah, because your BEST FROST DK tank guide made while DK sub laugh on you) simply nullifies such possibility.
    Off hand misses will leave you without rage, so why does dodge matter? We don't go for 27% hit cap for misses, so why go for dodge cap?!?!?!

    You're basing your evidence off previously believed warmane miscoded content, and they just fixed this bug in recent patches.

    Also I didn't make a frost dk tank guide, stop your ranting and raving. There is no "Sub" there's 5 dudes lurking the warmane forums 24/7 named persivaln, blind, angrylol, and a couple others.

    Orc + Mourne + Glorenzeig + Skeleton Lord's Circle = 26/21 expertise perfectly, which you can swap the ring with vali ring and gem 3 expertise gems and still be capped (worth it).

    As for my dps, I'm roughly 6.5k atm and doing 19k dps, most bis wars that are considered "good" that I see pull 21-22k at best. I've still got 4 hc marks, hc tosks, hc vali ring, hc pants, and togc cape to get. I'm curious to see once I reach bis if my **** gonna be higher, but I am by far not "dog****".
    Edited: June 10, 2022

  9. Hit beyond %8 is have very low value due whites being converted to yellows via hs/cleave, so even if you dont HARD cap hit rating, it wont hurt much, but any yellow can be a dodge without expertise soft cap.

    ps: There is no offhand miss chance, its dual wield miss chance which is %27. Both for mh and oh.

    PS 2: To the OP, very long ago I checked to see if the BiS list differs for orc and ended up concluding that bis is same without any differences. As one of the guys said, interchangable parts are wrists and capes. Im a fan of going gsb cloak + toskk, rather than going double haste or double arp. Though togc cloak + umbrage would be better by like 5-6 agi perhaps. And about boots, the difference between 264/277 ilvls maybe small but rs/icc hc item differency is way more than that. 264 lady boots and 277 lady boots have like 10-20 stat differences while 284 rs boots have like 40ish difference with 277 lady boots for ex.
    Edited: June 10, 2022

  10. real serious question right now but wrath been out since what? late 2008? 2009?
    they've been theory crafting BIS lists since release.
    people have been playing on this server since as early as 2009-2010 as well. warrior is a pretty solid and popular class in wrath..

    if there was a better BIS list.. don't you think someone wouldve discovered it a loooong time ago. (even with the recent bug fixes)

  11. real serious question right now but wrath been out since what? late 2008? 2009?
    they've been theory crafting BIS lists since release.
    people have been playing on this server since as early as 2009-2010 as well. warrior is a pretty solid and popular class in wrath..

    if there was a better BIS list.. don't you think someone wouldve discovered it a loooong time ago. (even with the recent bug fixes)
    Well bis list is wrong for warmane specifically as there is the 22 expertise is cap instead of 26 bug, unless that bug was fixed.
    Edited: June 16, 2022

  12. Can you prove it? Expertise cap 26 due to bosses being lvl 83, so melees need to bypass additional 1,5% to base 5% of dodge. Can you give link to bugtracker report about 22 expertise being dodge cap against raid bosses?

  13. warmane as there is the 22 expertise is cap instead of 26 bug
    This is not true.

  14. Can you prove it? Expertise cap 26 due to bosses being lvl 83, so melees need to bypass additional 1,5% to base 5% of dodge. Can you give link to bugtracker report about 22 expertise being dodge cap against raid bosses?
    It's well known all over warmane

    This is not true.
    The fact that you don't know about this bug yet comment on everyone being wrong about everything that goes against your opinion astounds me

  15. It's well known all over warmane



    The fact that you don't know about this bug yet comment on everyone being wrong about everything that goes against your opinion astounds me
    Yeah, and now give evidences about it, not another one of your "everyone know it cuz i said so". Link to confirmed expertise bug report plz.
    Feral druids and combat rogues would be ones who will find it out due to how strict their builds are tied to expertise stat on gear. Yet there is 0 mention of it in any of dedicated guides/discussions.

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