Eventually, you can admit it's unfair. And this is what ninja looting essentially is, you just fool people abusing rolling rules, obscuring details no sane person would think about at first place.
Wanna another example? "Infinite reserving". A guild reserves an item for primos/gold. Half the guild is rolling for primos/gold. The reserved item goes to the raid leader and the primos/gold go to the guildy that has won the roll. The primos/gold are put back in the guild vault. So we reserve items in every raid for exactly the same primos/gold over and over again. And everything in the boundaries of the rules, the item is reserved, the primos/gold are given to the winner, what else do you want, what do you find unfair, huh?
And this is not desire of the guildy that won the roll to put the stuff back in the guild vault. Is the guild's system you will be punished for by the guild's officers if you don't follow it.
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Member
Edited: July 2, 2022
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Moderator
Unfair != illegal.
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Forum Veteran
Even saying it's unfair would be wrong. Raid leader explains the rules. Guild leader explains the rules. Instead of understanding them players go on in their rainbow realm, then raid/guild leaders act according to rules they laid out at the start. Surprised pikachu face, suddenly it's unfair? No it's not, you literally AGREED to it. You AGREED to put primos in vault. You AGREED that tank will roll another MS. If it was unfair you would have left.
And this notion that someone will force raids and guild to do things according to your lvl1 morality is just a joke, it would not work even with such tyrannical power of labeling it "ninja". These ninja rules are stupid enough as is, what more do you want.
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Member
The amount of times someone asked me to roll is quite big.. sorry bro, this is what happens if you raid with unknown.
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Member
Yes, this is exactly what I said:
Just a bit verbal flexibility and I can take everything that drops in the raid and, which is the most important, you can't call me a ninja. Those fools are dumb themselves if they joined my fair non-ninja raid having zero chances to get at least something. We can always blame the victim.
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Forum Veteran
I was not sarcastic tough.
Be as verbally flexible as you want, if you set too convoluted or one sided rules, after 3 hrs spamming all you will get is a bunch of potatoes to disband on first bosses wipes. Tough speaking is most powerful thing in this world, if you are good enough you can talk each player buying you primo for those 23 EOFs they got in your raid.
I don't blame victims, because I don't see any there. People join such raids for their own reasons and I respect their decisions. But players who complain after the fact, I will not call them victims, I will call them what they are. Instead of learning important lesson they "become powerless victims", just absurd and ridiculous clown world logic, I don't even want to talk about it.
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Member
Unless your only irl activity is playing this game you are vulnerable for any sort of demagogy, coming home after a hard day of work or studying.
There's no power in words to put one additional obscured layer on the rules or to use your guild mates to take the loot away from pugs, making it look like you reserve it for something but eventually paying nothing for it. And there's nothing foolish in people that didn't recognize the trick being tired after a long day. Again, unless the only thing you're doing when you don't sleep is playing this game, you ARE vulnarable.
In all cases mentioned above you wouldn't use "power of words" to convince people, you would just fool them thinking they joined your raid having a chance to get something useful, you would fool them them to act against their own good. Not because your words have power, not because they knew what they signed up for, but just because the rules were formed to have several meanings.Edited: July 3, 2022
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Forum Veteran
I'm really lost here, could you give an example how someone by your definition "vulnerable" gets tricked by rules with several meanings?
If you join a raid where there are 9 people including you rolling for an item, 2 of them tanks, 5 of them are healers with changed MS. There is nothnig hidden for anyone, no matter how much time they can afford to spend in game. It's all out, at the start. I doubt after work people magically forget how to read.
Are you talking about people who, due to lack of available time, "must" join the first raid they see on global, no matter how rigged it is? They are not victims, they are the REASON why those raids exist. Stop joining raids with stupid rules.
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Member
What they're saying is, the global post says something like this:
"LF 2 DPS NAXX 25 SEMI GUILD RUN, BOE/EYE RES, 3.7K+ 2 FR PST"
which could easily trick anyone who didn't understand that other players are slimy as **** for pixel upgrades.
instead, what it should say is
"LF 2 DPS NAXX 25 SEMI GUILD RUN, BOE/EYE RES, 3.7K+ 2 FR PST. LOOT RULES: ALL OF OUR MEMBERS WILL ROLL ON EVERY ITEM AVAILABLE TO THEM IN ORDER TO GUARANTEE ONE OF OUR GUILD MEMBERS IS RECIEVING THE LOOT. WE WILL NOT TELL YOU THIS UNLESS YOU FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN. THEN WHEN YOU ASK ABOUT IT ON THE FORUMS, WE'LL JOIN THREAD AND TELL EVERYONE IT ISNT NINJA LOOTING"
so yeah, it is decieving other players in order to obtain loot, which is pretty much ninja looting. If they want to tell everyone that their guild is going to do that, fine, let them lol. But don't make people use their weekly save to help gear up ShytGuildRestoDruid#5Edited: July 5, 2022
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Forum Veteran
No, if there are no MS changes, or as you said, "everyone rolls" rules stated before the raid starts, if they do that, that's ninja. But if they state clearly who and what are the rules, it's your own fault, you don't get what you think you are entitled to, instead you get what you deserve, which is likely nothing.
So what exactly is unclear there? BOE reserved and eye is reserved. Any MS changes or specifics will be announced before pull. So they decide to say "everyone rolls" or unacceptable amount of people change MS - you leave the raid. You cant play victim card if raid splits the loot according to stated rules YOU AGREED upon, by staying in a raid. No one is making people do anything, they are there of their free will, sleeping in a bed they made.
So I don't know what you tried to say there, but you proved my point.
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Member
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume english is your second language because you completely ignored my point and went off on this tirade about me not deserving gear for some reason. You also ignored the poster above you, so yeah, gonna guess you dont actually understand the words you're typing.
The act of inviting randoms to your guild group to carry your spots because your **** guild cant keep a consistent raid team and needs pugs because they're that trash (and cant just do a 23 man raid instead... LOL, ****ters) , then taking all of the loot from that player by having 15 people roll regardless of whether or not they need the item is shiesty and thats all there is to it lol.
In case you didnt take elementary grade math, the probability of 15 rolls winning versus 1 roll is almost..... 15 to 1... wow! seems a little unfair! or are you going to make some leaps and bounds to tell me that 15 = 1 somehow?
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Forum Veteran
That's true, english is my 3rd language. But I think you are the one who did not understand. It's not about chances, it's about knowing your chances before you are saved. The fact that you agree to 15:1 chances tells me that you don't want gear. Then tell everyone how you deserve it. So basically you agree to unfair chances and then complain about.. unfair chances. Maybe you are trolling, there is no way someone actually reasons in 5 year old child logic, when they pick a thing and then throw a tantrum how it was unfair.
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