Horde PvP scene in Icecrown

[pehoto]

Best solution is to join specific, and avoid AV and IOC at all cost.

Its funny because this issue is up to a point where you need to avoid certain part of the game as Horde, since its heavily abused. Nothing to see here move along : )

[dyiana]

According to a moderator on the forum, Horde players don't know how to work together while the Alliance average player is a genius big brain so, sorry boys, our fault.

[bicat]

The big brain move is to pick the right faction followed by the correct class/spec/race. Fortunately for us, enough fail those tests.

[Repost]

According to a moderator on the forum, Horde players don't know how to work together while the Alliance average player is a genius big brain so, sorry boys, our fault.

Read into that however you want but I play on Horde and I'm doing just fine.

[enri]

It seems some top alliance pvp guilds are actually switching to horde

[dccct]

Good. No one misses them.

[lorienn]

40 man bgs are really bad in wotlk anyway bec how tanky ppl are and how strong healers are, i would say taking 40 man bgs out of the random bg queue and maybe putting a debuff on players who rez at graveyards which causes them to give no honor would make things much nicer and bec of human racial alliance will always have an edge and specially with this mindset that grown on horde players after months of getting annoyed by situation it would be really hard to recover from this

[deadlytivo]

AV and IoC as horde player = 15 min deserter.. At least for me every single time.

[thedark177]

This problem has been existing pretty much since 2018 *history trip*: before moltdown the ragnaros and deathwing realms (who now kinda form icecrown) where good balanced in PvP and WPvP, even on ragnaros horde started dominating a lot towards end of the realm's existence, horde had the best PvP guilds with +40 players online like dbp, tears, etc, even to the point I remember one of the best if not the best ally guilds |awaken| disolved bcs their guild master switched to horde. But then moltdown happened and a LOT of that ppl stoped playing bcs of the big effort they had lost (usually +3 bis PvP chars), then the server started repopulating again and the remanents where slowly losing intrest as they lost all and most of they friends left the server/switched to MOP (yes this happened to me and a lot of ppl i knew back then so it was a thing, then mop died and GG we wanted to kill ourselves).
So its 2018, the servers's population its mostly different from the old moltenwow and his golden age of GvGs with +80vs+80 (still videos on YT), most players are new and as the patch is 10 years old everyone knows what they're doing (from a basic point at least), so if u want to do PvP what do you make? human. The PvP on ally started arising again while horde's fell into decadence, some guilds tried to hold as a kind of reesistance but eventually they are disbanded due to players getting bored of low numbers online or losing in soloQs and rerolling allly.

So what's the solution then? The server betted on the mercenary mode and crossfaction BG system as some retail realms did back then, but this is a non too efficient solution as we can see bcs:
1- it only affects BGs levaing WPvP the same which affects to things like VOA.
2- a lot dont want to play like this so they just disable/ignore it.

My point is that for me only a pragmatic solution exists but the problem is that is not too "Blizzlike" and thats probably what the server will say about it even icecrown is not 100% blizzlike (ICC, XP, gold, store...), i would understand this on Lordaeron but here should be reasonable.
SO, my easy solution for the problem is: Buff [Will of the forsaken] so it works exactly like [Every man for himselg], Undead racial working exactly like Human racial.

Now let me explain why this a real solution and indeed balanced: First of all it affects everything, not just BG so first problem solved. Second the buff wont make it Op (well it will be but as we have a counterpart in the opposite faction working and reigning for +12 years... you got the point, its just fair that we got the same) as it will work as a trinket just like Human's one, and let me auto answer some questions:

"But the undead has more racial stuff leaving the human in a worse place"
Let me tell you that the human has incresed spirit which scales with priest talents, arcane mage, wlock armor... , boost to reputations and EVEN increased stealth detection which makes the rogue talent USELESS when dueling human rogues, they will 90% times get you sapped first.

"But horde has better overall racial skills, wouldnt that leave it unbalanced?"
Horde has great racial skills indeed, but so do ally have. The thing is that horde skills seem more powerfull in therms of superficial analysis as the are focused on enhancing dmg, but this make them more PVE oriented (YES THEY CAN BE USEFULL IN PVP TOO I KNOW) but ally ones are also very useful IN PvP as they seem more oriented to survavility.

"But that would make everyone reroll undead as horde races are cooler or whatever"
Do you think everyone will spend 30 points/money on every char just to get what they already have for free as Human? this will simply help to NEW characters to be made in horde with PvP as their objective and this is what we've been needing for years, also a few transfers will be well thanked so we can have new guilds in almost no time.

This game wont last forever, we all know that, we dont want it to happen but eventually it will even now server is on a good position surviving classic wotlk, would you like to remember this server as the one who has all those faction balancing problems that wouldnt let us enjoy our game as we did at the start? why? just because isnt blizzlike? even the realm isnt?
We are all suffering this just bcs a Blizzard's decision 15 years ago, a decision Warmane doesnt have to pay for, a decision of doing an aparently simple buff to the human racial skill which will define PvP forever in this patch. We play here, our server, not the retail or the Wotlk classic for a reason. and that reason isnt just the money as most of us spented some on donations, today is possible to play retail for free and still we are here, I like to think we belive in this server.

If we are going to be stuck in a patch where the meta is overdefined years ago maybe we shouldt let unfair things be.

Thanks for your patience.

~Vic

[gerosu]

Hello.

I noticed what "thedark177" wrote and there's a few things I want to point out.

1. thedark177 admits that there was a time when horde dominated the pvp scene and now it is alliance who dominates it. My question is, since you enjoyed it when horde dominated the pvp scene and did not want the server to be balanced, why do you want the server pvp scene to be balanced now? You liked it when it was one-sided as long as it benefited you, but now when it's the other way around, suddenly you start to care about the balance? That's really interesting.... xD

2. It is obvious that you spent 30 mins complaining about the "human racial" which was the same way from the beginning. This, however, didn't stop horde from dominating the pvp scene long time ago, as you stated. Sure, when 60% of the server played horde, everyone can dominate when there is basically no competition (it is still 52%ish horde population, according to the warmane info). So how come the same human racial now hasn't been an issue back then and you just suddenly found this to be wrong? Maybe the solution you actually want is to remove alliance from the game or forbid the players from that faction to get to lvl 80/get pvp gear/ban the alliance pvp guilds?

[Baartleby2]

Just don't queue random, problem solved. The premade HK farmers only play AV / IOC. Make the queue unbearable for them.

[Baartleby2]

Hello.

I noticed what "thedark177" wrote and there's a few things I want to point out.

1. thedark177 admits that there was a time when horde dominated the pvp scene and now it is alliance who dominates it. My question is, since you enjoyed it when horde dominated the pvp scene and did not want the server to be balanced, why do you want the server pvp scene to be balanced now? You liked it when it was one-sided as long as it benefited you, but now when it's the other way around, suddenly you start to care about the balance? That's really interesting.... xD

2. It is obvious that you spent 30 mins complaining about the "human racial" which was the same way from the beginning. This, however, didn't stop horde from dominating the pvp scene long time ago, as you stated. Sure, when 60% of the server played horde, everyone can dominate when there is basically no competition (it is still 52%ish horde population, according to the warmane info). So how come the same human racial now hasn't been an issue back then and you just suddenly found this to be wrong? Maybe the solution you actually want is to remove alliance from the game or forbid the players from that faction to get to lvl 80/get pvp gear/ban the alliance pvp guilds?

The problem is the premade guilds who are farming AV / IOC all day long are sabotaging players trying to play objectives. If you cap a graveyard they're farming, they'll get their entire premade to report you afk so you won't get any honor, or kicked. It's been going on for several years at this point, and it doesn't matter if you report them. Nothing happens.

If Warmane did something about these hk farmers, like capping the amount of HKs you can get, way more people would queue for BGs.

[gerosu]

Up to this point, all of those farming premades have switched from the alliance side to horde side. I guess now you're happy and everything is perfectly fine, since they play on horde side.

[thedark177]

Hello Gerosu,

1. Because people grow and change perspectives..? Yes i enjoyed horde dominating back then but after being in the opposite side and literaly 7 more years of experience now I feel 50/50 is the best...? No offense but that question/arg felt pretty stupid.
2. As i said, on the begining the meta knowledge and tryhardism was quite different, players used to prefer a race they liked than the most ez one, thats why despite de fact the faction population is almost 50/50 the pvp isnt balanced as the horde racials are more pve oriented and ally ones the opposite (which i explained too), thats why now it is an issue and wasn't back then, because players are way tryharder now and will allways go for the easiest way instead of picking the race they like the most.

Btw, why do you say stuff like "you spent 30 min complaining" etc in such way? is it bad to try explain my opinion in the most accurated way? maybe your 1st point wasnt a stupid question, more like an intended peyorative comment

[gerosu]

Sorry, but everyone can sense your bias here. First of all, the population (according to warmane's information panel) is always in favour of horde (51% up to 54%) of players are playing horde. What you actually want is not to "have a fair 50/50", you and probably many others would feel great if people will stop playing alliance or just remove the faction completely.

And do you want to know the reason why Blizzard "created" the human racial? Back then, the game was played by a lot of teenagers, which have now mostly grown up. But as teenagers, everyone wanted to play as "ork" so they were playing horde, to the point where it started to get unbalanced (alliance players could not even level up). So this "human racial" has brought back some balance, where the pvp min-maxers would switch to alliance because of it, hence people started to play alliance too, not only horde. So I guess the 64% horde players which blizzard had back then got shrinked to about 55% horde, which was good for the balance, otherwise it would have been a dead game since then.

And now, back to this "issue", I think your issue has just been solved. Those bg farmers which you complained about are now on horde side, sooner or later, people will stop playing alliance, so now the numbers on the information panel will keep growing in horde's favour, up until the point where there's nothing to bring back balance to the server, just as what happened to retail and the retail population collapse xD. Why retail pvp servers are "dead" now or either 99% of one faction or 99% of the other faction is a totally different subject, but you can probably guess the similarities.