What exactly do you want the staff to do? Please tell us what you have in mind.
I don't think blaming the staff is the right reaction to getting killed in world PvP. If you can, please clarify to me as to why I'm wrong when I think that.
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Moderator
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Member
It's not just "getting killed in world PvP". Its a small group of ppl that want to and do harass a way bigger group of weaker ppl.
And it's not just "griefing" at this point. It's leggit harassment. It's something unfair, pretty bad behavior and frowned upon in many areas of life.
And they don't seem to hide their intention, on other posts and in game they just tell you : "you made a horde char, you don't get to play. We will pursue you and ruin your gametime"
I would say, make a poll. My answer or what i have in mind has little value if i'm alone thinking that way. Make a poll for the lord server first.
Let's see how ppl feel about this specific way of harassing ppl: a small group of ALWAYS THE SAME PPL occupying for multiple hours almost every day low lvl areas and killing players/killing the quest npcs and making it close to impossible for them to access a large part of the game.
If a significant portion of the server, and not over 51% but like 8 or 9 out of 10 ppl participating in the poll say they want this to be sorted by warmane staff; then you get to find a way of sorting this out.
The same 5 ppl shouldn't have the power to ruin the game of a 7 or 8 out 10 way bigger group of players. Well, thats what i think. May be the rest of the server thinks i'm wrong. But, since multiple posts pop on this forum, global chat is spammed daily in game about that topic/issue...
Polls have been seen in the past, and warmane staff showed they would do "hands on" changes if a big majority of the ppl concerned ask for it.
Instead of just saying : "Deal with it yourselves, we are hands of.", may be ask "Do you want us to still be hands off on that matter?"
Griefing is ok. Going in a low lvl area and kill a few lowbies for 10 - 15 - 45 minutes or more to feel powerfull, or drive out of capitals higher lvl hordies to get some wpvp going on or some other reason is fine.
But a ****ing "9 to 5" scheduled "grief"... Going on for months/years... It's seems way over the limit. For some of those guys, it seems its all they do from the time they log on to the time they log off.
And i find it really weird that the warmane staff doesn't even do the first steps.
The answer you gave to me is: "What would you do big boi?" then writing a mischaracterization of what the issue is. The issue isn't just geting killed in world PVP. The issue seems to be bad intent, targeted-ish harassment and disrupting the game of a larger number of players. For the enjoyment of 5ish ppl.
At some point, **** those 5 guys. And i think we are way past the point.
If they are not 5 but way more, it will show on the poll. If the comunity feels this is an issue (and what i say is indeed harassment) and/or suffer from it, it will show on the poll too.
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Member
Wrote it real quick and english is not my first language.
Just pointing out i said 8 or 9/10 and then 7 or 8/10. You chose your cut off (obviously the staff has the power anyway). Just a significant gap to make it fair.
And not half+1 the people geting one over the other half-1.
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Member
i'd prefer the dev make killing lv 80 in wpvp grants much higher honor or something, that way atleast people get some kind of reward protecting these whiners who couldnt grasp the difference between pvp and pve realm. probably would make wpvp encounters more alive, but idk.
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Member
Ok, no.
I don't thing changing values in game is either necessary or a good idea.
What ppl are asking for is the staff to intervene in a comunity based issue, where bad actors harass constantly (and proudly - since one of them even has a youtube chanel to show how good he is good at griefing). Ppl that have no way of defending themselves directly, even grouping as a 40man raid of lvl 20s.
These bad actors ruin the game for an overwhelming part of the community (my hypothesis). They use slights in judgement and designing in a game 15yrs old at this point.
Blizzard showed it in classic themselves, making some npcs unkillable for the Shifting Sands quest line. Those quest npcs got griefed for like 3 days, a large group of ppl got hurt. Blizzard came in, evalued the issue and acted on 15yrs old bad design. In a matter of days.
Why can't Warmane staff just do that. Recognize bad design (from blizzard 15 yrs ago) and bad actors in the community today. Evaluate if this is an issue that needs intervention (by asking trough a poll the server) and then act or not.
Come on, "Its blizzlike, just get griefed or go somewhere (area) else!" from the staff ?
It feels like a /spit when 10-15-20+ posts pop on the forum trough the years, with the same names appearing in them almost each time. I logged on Lord 2h ago and "that hunter is back to tarren mill. " "He is there" was on horde's global.
Don't just dismiss without thought because "it is was it is". Warmane staff did act, as i said in previous post. I think its now time to really consider if they should be acting or not on this topic.
It's not "only wpvp", don't be so dismissive. "Your experience is not experience and we know because it's blizzlike and i am a forum mod".
Ok great! Sure. You guys know better what multiple ppl experience in game everyday for multiple months and do not need at all to consider what they say.
Come on...
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Member
i would agree with u if the only way to level up is by going tarren mill. which has been a red zone like stv in pvp realms for ages.
i totally get why ppl got upset when these aholes do what they do, everyone got ganked while leveling atleast once anyway. But ganking is part of wpvp regardless its fair or not, its just the way pvp realm goes.
what i dont get is why does it seem that ppl insist on going there while the gankers around, its like they're asking to be ganked. have u ever think how other people can manage lvl 80 while ppl like u having a hard time in tarren mill?
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Member
There is such a thing as ganking. And it's not really what is done in this situation.
Griefing is yet another thing, you could say and some do say its what is done here. And yeah griefing is dickish but hey, part of the game and ppl also have the right to enjoy being a bit of a dick in a videogame. Because it's a game. And yeah low lvls in a pvp realm/area will sometimes get axed. It sometimes leads to something fun like groups forming in each side, etc etc.
What is described here, and what seems to happen, is the systematization of harassement where the sole objective is to RUIN, not be dickish here and there, but log multiple hours, everyday to just target directly any horde leveler and ruin the game for them. Not make them feel bad a little, RUIN.
And you say Tarren Mill, but it's not only Tarren Mill. The group of guys doing that usualy go to Tarren Mill, but also Freewind post (at the time i'm writing, i'm logged in game and levelers are calling for help there on Global), and pretty much any low lvl questing zones with pvp flags on.
So no, its not the levelers that are asking or looking for it, they just have pretty much nowhere to go. Since these guys log multiple hours almost everyday (pretty much seems to be their 9 to 5).
It's way to easy to say "Oh, they are looking for it. They go where they are supposed to go wearing their pvp flag on and they get what they were looking after." "They shouldn't have rolled horde **** them."
The culpability of bad behaviors from people with bad intents shouldn't be put on the victims.
The game is 15 yrs, it's badly designed here and there. Blizzard themselves made changes in "NO CHANGE Classic" proving they themselves see that design as just too bad. (Speaking of making some quest givers unkillable).
We are speaking of ****ing Activision Blizzard, they would ****ing put you in a furnace and burn you if it would mean profit for them. They give close to 0 **** about their community. Just the wallets. And even they, in less than a week of the same behavior from griefers in classic, they did something.
This is Warmane, not blizzard activision. I get it. But yeah, come on. What a way of answering your community if you do worse than blizzard on this one issue.
5 or so guys ruin the game for every horde leveler for months/years trough some badly designed parts of the game.
This makes no sense to me. That a few are allowed to just affect badly so many, and no one bats an eye. Even worse some put the fault on the victims.
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Member
ganking, griefing, corpse camping, whatever u want to call it, whether their intention is solely to ruin others or whatever it is, they are not breaking any rule and not punishable. read the rules : https://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037
bad design? thats subjective. some ppl prefer it for what it is. its just how pvp realm goes. there's a realm who doesnt have 'bad design' like pvp realm, its called PVE realm. unfortunately warmane only has frostmourne for that, and its currently unavailable.
i said tarren mill because the post is about tarren mill? but u know what i mean, tarren mill, stv, 1k needles, same pvp zones. ppl should expect any kind of pvp encounters.
and pls dont bring 'fairness' 80vs80 arguments because we'll get back again to 'bad design' nature in PVP realm and keep circling around.Edited: May 29, 2023
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Member
My man, bad design is about the fact you can kill quest npcs on repeat. You can be afk and still kill a whole quest hub with a pet. And the levelers too.
And, follow me here, what if the rules could be revisited? Who says it has to still be that way.
The rules of lord when it opened was hardcore twinked pve blizzlike pvp server. Nothing changes but raid bosses.
Yet, now we have soloq, cross server bgs, mercenary system in bgs, arena spectator...
Oooooh shoot! "Some ppl" like it "some" don't? Why not ask how many exactly and see if it needs changes. For now, what it seems is only 5ish ppl like it and may be 5 more on this forum enjoy being debate lords "huh huh its... blizzlike. Get f*ed" "It's the rules".
If something doesn't make sense, you can look at it and try to find some sense to it. Or change it to make sense.
And i'm not asking for no punishment. I'm asking for atleast a poll that could lead to some change. If that enchange improves a whole part of the community but 5 ppl lose their biggest (sadistic) enjoyment... Well too bad. They can go to another area or find something else to do.
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Member
u can mention anything u dont like with this 'bad design', im simply saying thats just how pvp realms in wow work, man.
this is mmo, this kind of pvp realm 'players problem' can be resolved by players. u can get somewhere else, u can ask for other players help, u can leveling through rdf to skip that zone, or whatever, its not like facing gankers or griefers is the only way to level up.
they're just few aholes, they can be killed, if they run then back again. then ask for help again, if none help, thats just unfortunate, just move on. why would u stick around that zone for hours knowing the risk?
if other people can manage to skip/pass the ganking phase and get to 80, while u stuck in it, its not the game mechanics or rules fault.
if u want the dev change the rules or the game mechanics, this is not the place to ask for it. why would they change the rules or game mechanics where this gameplay 'problem' can be solved by the players themselves?
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Member
Ok, so you didn't read anything of what i said. Or already forgot.
And you really like repeating what has already been said "it is what it is". We got it. Helps a damn lot! Thanks for the contribution man.
System broken but hey you can get your way arround. Cool. Nice way of going about it.
Do you play on lord? Have you leveled a char on horde side lately? He... leave it, no need to answer.
And in the next 20 posts that will appear, you will give the same answer of the last 20. My man, you are a parrot? Repeat without considering.
Welp, as i said thanks for the contribution. I have nothing to add to my previous points and i'm not into the idea of speaking with a debate lord.
Keep enjoying what you do tho, side with "the rules" and win feel good points.
Warmane staff will do what they do and we will see what happens.
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Banned
>why would they change the rules or game mechanics where this gameplay 'problem' can be solved by the players themselves?
Because excessive griefing was punished by Blizzard in original Wrath. Same player camping in Duskwood for 2 days? A GM would ask them to stop and if they didn't they get banned for a day (or three). If they kept at it, the bans would escalate. And this was on PVP servers too.
And you keep ignoring the fact that its not just one dude doing it, its an entire group of losers attacking all level 20-30 areas on Horde side at the same time. Where do you go if you have nowhere to go? Grind mobs? Sure, you can do that. You can try to do RDF too, but expecting low level players to deal with this degeneracy like that instead of stopping it beyond stupid and its likely gimping the Horde population from increasing if players quit in the early 20s because they expect the rest of their leveling journey to be like this sh*t.
If I make it to 80 and this is still happening on Horde I'll start griefing Alliance 24/7 everywhere with my own group.
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Member
wait what? i totally understand your point. but i think u dont get what i said.
2 moderators have already responded kindly, and told u how to deal with the problem, but u somehow dont get their point, and mistakenly took their responds as some kind of 'ignoring'.
ok, let me explain another way. lets say Lordaeron is PVE realm and i roll horde, then i complain at forum that i cant kill alliance players in non sanctuary zones then i ask the dev to make it somehow i can kill other players. how would u respond to my complain?
btw, im playing on lord too, leveling is literally what i do to sell chars for coins, aside from farming herbs. ive been ganked multiple times. reached 80 multiple times, matter of fact, im leveling my undead rogue hes lv55 now named morvion, u can check the armory yourself, but gonna roll dk cz i think it sells faster.
i wont even bring 'this is warmane not blizzard' argument, if u read the rules then understand it this wont even be an issue. and btw i played on retail during wotlk too, i played on stormreaver where tarren mill was literally slaughter house 24/7 for years, and gm never intercepted.
i never ignore the fact that its not done by 1 person, not even once i assume or said the gankers are one person, i literally use 'they' and 'aholes'. and not even once i said u need to kill them or make a raid party as lv 20 or 30 thats obviously moronic, i simply said this is mmo game, interact with others, theres a global chat to ask for help, theres more 80s horde than these aholes on tarren mill. if u dont like it, well thats pvp realm for u.
if u make it to 80, u will find the same ganking/corpse camping problem. the difference is just the gear score, not character level. let see if u're gonna complain about that too.
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Member
btw, u can ask cerune when hes online to help u with the ganking problem, he himself has ganked me multiple times while leveling when he was alliance, he changed to horde recently
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Member
So basicly "Come on it's like it was. I deal with it, you should too. Just go somewhere else. Its the rules and its how it has always been. Call for help. Organise comunity. This is a pvp realm. Blablabla".
The exact. Same. Answer. All the time. I got you the first time parroty parrot. You are the one not understanding what i say. Like at all. You exemple is ridiculous. Doesn't equate in any way what i said.
Staff adressed us kindly? Really? I don't say they were rude, but hey: the "What would you do big boi? If you know so much. Go ahead tell us." sure felt condescending.
And they did what you do. But they have guidelines they probably must follow. Not 100% scripted for sure, but a general idea.
You, you just parroty parrot. Hope the feel good points feel good.
Aight, i'm out of here. Just your answer was to funny to not point it out.
Cya!
