Apparently you have to be 6.8 to do TOC 10 nm

**wolforedark** · May 23, 2023

[Rant incoming]
can't even do a normal TOC without a low geared dps telling me my defense rating (500) is not enough when I also have resilience because of PvP Gear "omg you have PvP gear? how dare you!" Yes, thats what im trying, trying to gear up, that's why im doing a freaking ToC 10 nm. Now repeat with me: to be crit inmune you add up resilience rating and defense rating, if they are over 5.6% you are good!

**angrylol** · May 23, 2023

It's perfectly normal. Why take you with some inferior build when they can take the next guy with proper build? Tank has half pvp gear, then healers have half pvp gear, then dps have it. Everyone is playing their characters at half of their potential already and with pvp gear it's even less. Then it's a wipefest.

To reject people with pvp gear is a smart thing to do.

**wolforedark** · May 23, 2023

Yes, I mean if I had to pick between 5,5 with pvp or "properly geared" i would pick the second one. But 5.5 (me) is way over the necessary for Toc 10, which drops 232. I want to gear up with pve gear that I get from raids, specially I want to improve my shield. What should I do? farm money until I have 6.0 and then not be able to do any raid because I don't have the experience? I would argue my tier 10 pieces and my t9 with some Ah items that are very high ilvl make up for my 3 pvp items which are not that bad when it comes to tanking, as they provide crit inmunity.

**angrylol** · May 23, 2023

**Usernameless** · May 29, 2023

Doesnt matter if you are 5.5, you still have pvp gear. Resilience only works against players, not mobs. Literally any pve gear is better than pvp if you plan raiding or going dungeon, even if its way worse in stats

**Repost** · May 29, 2023

Originally Posted by Usernameless

Doesnt matter if you are 5.5, you still have pvp gear. Resilience only works against players, not mobs. Literally any pve gear is better than pvp if you plan raiding or going dungeon, even if its way worse in stats

Actually the OP has a point in the fact resilience does reduce your chance to be crit by mobs. I've used this for years to solo things on clothies.

**Islingr** · May 29, 2023

Originally Posted by Repost

Actually the OP has a point in the fact resilience does reduce your chance to be crit by mobs. I've used this for years to solo things on clothies.

it feels like there's maybe 600 players on the server that know this... especially for tanks, I usually recommend fresh tanks to grab pvp neck and cloak when they ding 80, it helps with your def cap and ilvl/gearscore, it has a crapton of stamina on it which is important when you don't even have a bis furry warrior's hp pool yet, you pick e.g. hit neck/cloak to help with your threat, so you lose no stat, effectively, from the items

now, being half pvp, does come with downsides, mainly, while resilience provides crit immunity, it does not do what defense does (each 25 defense is 1% block, dodge, and parry - note, DEFENSE, not defense rating) so you will be taking more hits... and depending on your exact pieces, you at 5.5k will not have 35k armor and may be floating as low as 28, which is going to make healers hate you

**Blind** · May 29, 2023

Originally Posted by Usernameless

Doesnt matter if you are 5.5, you still have pvp gear. Resilience only works against players, not mobs. Literally any pve gear is better than pvp if you plan raiding or going dungeon, even if its way worse in stats

You're also one of those guys claiming rowans isn't a decent choice for hunters pre-raiding, right?

PvP Gear on a tank is actually surprisingly viable. Especially when he does not have better options at hand/his only options are garbage dungeon drops.
Comparing things like
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45825 vs http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51362
http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50207 vs http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=51363
is pretty much a nobrainer. PvP Items win hands down in any situation simply by being ilvl 264 and thus providing massively increased stats. Yes, you're gonna get hit a bit more - but it's not like any healer really cares about a couple % less chance to be hit on a tank. You're never going to heal reactively anyway.

Of course you want to replace them with "proper" tank gear asap. But that usualy means at least ilvl 245 or higher unless it's an item with a very desireable statline e.g. bonus armor.
The only truly "bad" thing about pvp gear is the lack of offensive stats e.g. your threat is going to suffer. But unless you run around in full wrathful that's not gonna pose an issue usually.

**Bastardbottle** · May 29, 2023

I was using haste wf back on my hpally and wasnt regretting since good back drops are rare (closest is togc10 back and those good backs are needed by almost every single caster.), 1-2 pieces are OK to have but being mostly pvp is a big no, you take ****tons of damage constantly, just they are not being crits. Side stats are important to have even though tanks shouldnt rely on avoidance.

**hezente** · May 29, 2023

People don't support your decision, sad story.
Either fix your gear or host your own raids.
If you have enough braincells to calculate your stats you can also lead a toc 10.

**angrylol** · May 29, 2023

Yup, it's about "trust". Random pug doing some big brain stuff, average pug enjoyer can not calculate what is your "actual" gs with that gear, does this dude even know what he is doing, questions questions questions, omg we probably will just wipe. No thanks, pass on this guy.

Have to realize, when you are going with people who know to trust you, you can do all the big brain stuff all day long, do 30 RBG to get 300 more HP or whatver. Anything goes when you know what you are doing and are playing with people who know what they are doing.

Until you make that happen, go for the good old tank gear and stick some gems in it to cap def.

**velgaa** · June 4, 2023

One time I got kicked out of a icc 10nm for not having enough defense. I was a 6.1k bear druid with the Survival of the Fittest talent maxed out, and the guy who kicked me out was a fkn balance druid ;D

I mean me even having some defense from gear is already overkill

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Apparently you have to be 6.8 to do TOC 10 nm

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