You're not being helpful. Flogging your ego doesn't do anything.
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Field Medic Moderator
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Member
Nobody have ego here. They are 3k xp players who tell you fact about their class being unplayable. Arena is the only valuable pvp experience, those player are the only legit one to say if there there is a problem or not. They want to play their class but they can't. We are in 2024 we don't know how many time wotlk will be still playable before it completely died. Prot paladin only have been fixed since October 2023, wich show us not everything have been fixed in warmane. You have fact and proof that ret dmg is not working well. We switched meta since 2019, its been 5 years we are in shadowmourn meta, nobody have been playing ret in high mmr since 5 years. So please take a look at it we don't want wait another 10 years for a fix like you did with prot, we can't wait ten years cuz wotlk will not age for ever, its already on a really really bad state.
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Field Medic Moderator
You're arguing with me. They're putting me down when they know nothing about me. When none of it matters. I don't care what your, their, or anyone else's pvp mmr experience is. That experience is not a consideration at all when it comes to development to make things work the way they *should*. If nobody in this thread can take that into consideration, and instead flex themselves and put others down, I'm just going to close the thread. The thread itself matters little, as well, due to reports needed to be made on the bug-tracker, not here. But if you'd rather argue with me than give me information so I can fast-track it to the dev team, then you do you.
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Member
There is no ego involved in this topic I think we all mentioned our exp and ratings to make our statements and experiences valid. I would like to elaborate further, some people mentioned they get 5-8k judgements on players, well this is only achievable if: 1-The target player is low resilience. 2-You are playing with 5/5 seal of the pure talent. 3- You have Shadowmourne proc and trinket procs up with wings. Now where does that leave us? Well in high rate arena everyone's gear is optimized so forget 1 shotting players randomly. Secondly 5/5 seal of the pure talent cannot be acquired because you will need to spend your points into divine sacrifice and improved sacred shield talent to get more tanky because of rets lack of defense. Even in the endgame pve and pvp rets cancel the shadowmourne proc (not only for cc) to proc it again for the 2k burst damage which makes ur dps a little bit sustainable, canceling the 200 str proc to proc it over and over again gives u more dps than keeping it which tells us either weapon scaling or strength scaling isn't working properly. I recently got sent a video by another high rated ret player that hit 1.2k judgement with shadowmourne and wings up.
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Field Medic Moderator
"I sincerely doubt that moderatos ever played in highest mmr as two hand ret in warmane so they cant realy understand what going on. Moderators just have theoretical knowledge of class, the reality is way more different."
This is what I'm talking about. It's a dumb approach to take jabs at me as if I know nothing. I understand Ret and how it works very well, more than most. But that's irrelevant. You see, I have to be able to specify exact things and explain to QA and developers who do not have that experience. It's not for my benefit, and I can't take "I have X arena exp, trust me bro" to the dev team.
I'd like to see this for analysis if at all possible. You can send to me in a pm if you need to.
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Member
First of all, thank you Mercy for your assistance on this thread.
I must say, it's clear that we are all wanting to find a balance for the Retribution spec in PvP. While there's a variety of opinions and suggestions - the thing is we aren't sure on what exactly needs to be fixed, we can only make suppositions for now but one thing we are sure about is that the damage is not how it should be, atleast in PvP.
Now, I understand it is true that in the end who we are doesn't really matter, what matters is the class working the way it should. So instead, I suggest everybody to provide clear feedback and examples in order to continue the discussion in a constructive way. I think examples like videos could help, as it helped in the past on correcting bugs I believe.
As for me, I think the two handed specialization talent might be the problem here. For example it could not be increasing seal damage etc but only auto atk damage? Again, im not 100% sure though, but it's already something the devs could look into, no?
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Field Medic Moderator
I did receive a video link and I forwarded it to QA. They may comment here later, as per investigation of the issues. But for now, anything you have, you can post here or pm it to me and I'll forward it.
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Member
ty for that
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Member
People play preg or prot as you said. But not ret even while we are in shadowmourne meta. What bug are you talking about? Prot paladin was nerfed till october 2023 and Lyhn still got 3K+ 2s as Prot/Rsham while it's not even the meta for that combo. This same guy could have been playing ret but instead he didn't because he knows the damage is way too bad in Warmane. The fact that high rated players prefer to play something that's not in the current meta (prot i.e) instead of what is supposed to be in the meta (Shadowmourne ret) should alarm the devs. While in old AT (264 meta) all high rated players (and damagers) were playing ret even when ret was inferior than prot paladin on this meta. Jabz got 3k 2s/3s as ret, Slade 2.9 2s, Knop 2.7 3s, none of these guys got their stat as prot even when prot was the meta. Think about it.
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Field Medic Moderator
Unlike Blizzard has done in the past, we won't make changes based on perception or feelings. If something is truly not working as how it should have on retail wotlk, then we'll likely make that change. But without evidence to support it and actual knowledge of what the issues are, changes won't happen. We're not willing to make potentially custom changes to suit perception and feelings.
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Member
1477 jugement on wings : https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOgl9GoH...ddFY8GlpkUznPu
Edited: January 4, 2024
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Member
Stop focusing on the wrong issue. the 1477 dmg with judgement that you did, was partially absorbed by the obvious sacred shield proc + 30% of damage got redirected through sacrifice, and obviously....it was not a critical strike.
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Forum Veteran
Should record those videos with MSBT on so they clearly show where the damage comes from, whether it was partially absorbed, etc.
When you try to hit a high resi plate target using a retri it feels like you've traded your shadowmourne for a wet noodle.
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Member
I am so glad I found this topic, I was seriously thinking that I am going crazy. Something changed and rets are lacking. I can't tell what it is unfortunatelly but it's like if you are driving a car and you can feel that suddenly it has not enough power but you just don't know where is the problem. I am happy that people are actually talking about it and trying to figure out what's wrong.
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Member
and what about the 950 crusader strike on rogue with wings ?
what about the 1k crusader strile on 1k resi paladin withs wings ?
what about the fact we didnt saw a ret in arena since 5 years lmao
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