Humans are not overpowered in pvp

[Ricks2]

So what are you up to besides replying to this?

Spoiler: Show

That's not really relevant to anything I've said, now is it?

It's very relevant, considering you judge something you aren't a part of. AS I say every time this comes up, you don't see me talk about how easy mechanic X inraid X is, do you?

Same difference though. You're talking about a class that has astronomical burst power, but then fizzles out after it's expired. Of course things would work that way for them.

Of course, but that applies for most melee's, like arms or fury is the same thing. Not sure about ret yet, since my gear is still pretty dumpster, but they seem somewhat bursty.

Oh so we're talking about a "meta" now? Are you trying to drag this back into the 3v3 subject? Because, again, 3v3 does not represent the PvP portion of the game as a whole.

As a whole? Nope, but it does represent the competitive aspect, which you talked about. If you wanna backpeddal and change it to overall pvp, then my interest drops off. 2s and RBGs are pretty broken and fairly meaningless, so lets try this: What "rated aspects of pvp" were you speaking of?

Not just one, but two of them, or even three, chained together. If I'm playing my Human Priest, as I usually do for PvP, I'd much rather be stunned so I can immune it via Priest talent, or simply remove it with my racial. But that's what the perception of balance is about. It changes from person to person. You can argue opinions and alternative facts if you like, but that doesn't change that each class and race is going to have a different perspective on what is more lethal to them. "I play Horde, so I'm going to pick X or Y class because of Z reason!" OK, sure. But if I'm playing Alliance, what choices do I have? The only active racial really worth much is the Human racial, so of course some Alliance players are going to choose that. Not because it's powerful, but because it is really the only clear option for the faction. So stuns are then less of an issue. If stuns are less of an issue, then what is still a big issue?

Awwww, this is adorable. You actually put together a part in your post which didn't make me facepalm in one way or another. This is actually something valid and thought out put in a proper sentanced structure which explains your complained. Remember this?

Like seriously, if you dont like belfs because they annoy you, k that's fair enough.

You don't like belfs because they annoy the hell out of you, perfectly valid point. I personally don't like demon hunters, are they OP or something? Nope, but that they can find me in stealth when I bg or float around till deep damp is pretty annoying. Look at us having things that annoy us, it's like we are besties.

But, again, that's not what I was talking about. And even if I were to humor you, there are far more reasons for Blood Elves to be common than what you mentioned.

Sure, I never claimed that there's more reasons then what I mentioned, it's just the tip of the iceberg. Doesnt change that you incredibly over hyped them with your comment.

I was asking myself the same question when you tried to claim that the US Alliance is bad compared to EU, and that's why Horde is dominant. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. And now here you are flipping your own argument against yourself.

No, that's not even close to what I said. EU horde was dumpster at the start of the expansion, because everyone good played alliance, it became more even over time due to people aiming for easy glad etc. Most good US players switched to horde, attracting a ton of people who followed their example, that's the reason why alliance was and is pretty crap, it got a little better from what I heard, but still pretty bad. You can observe the same flow on molten even, it's just how the game goes.

Oh, I don't know.... every single other mode of rated PvP than 3's?
Rated BGs don't represent a thing? And 2s is 2s? Why do you feel 3s accurately represents what goes on in RBGs and 2s? Do you think 3s accurately represents what goes on in random BGs and skirmishes too? And you accuse me of backpedalling? HAH, at least I don't have a stick up my backside over 3s. All you're doing here is making it obvious that you're only here to try and flex your ego. Sorry buddy.

That's what you are missing, all those things have their own meta game. But that doesnt make them them equally relevant, let's take 2s shall we? You push 2.4k, to obtain max ilvl gear and thats all you care for. You'll find a few people who prefer this mode and that's fine, this includes me btw. I don't have a third, finding someone has been beyond annoying in legion. So no, I'm not stroking my own ego, I'm shooting into my own foot trashing 2s. And I prefer avoiding RBGs as a topic, theres a lot wrong with that bracket, like literally. Maybe the RBG situation is good in US, but that's not at all the case in EU.

So you admit it then?

That you try to run your "this is a fact" talk off as your own perception of things? Yea, sure. I honestly can't be bothered to argue over that, that one would never end. I've been here long enough to know that.

If you wanted to comment on his post, then perhaps you should have done so instead of wall-of-texting a response to me? And if this isn't an accurate conclusion as to why you post, then can you explain why just about every time you start posting after an extended time away from the forum, it's a post directed at me trying to stroke your ego or you getting triggered by something I posted?

I did comment on his post and you seem to be imagining things? The last time you and I talked, was when you replied to one of my posts, which i followed up with a reply to you. Matter of fact you replied twice to me before I even answered once. I'm 100% sure there's times I replied to you, but you exaggerate a ton here.

Again, as DamnOriginal mentioned in previous posts towards other comments of yours, this is anecdotal.

No, it's not. This one is this rare super power called common sense. 1) you can count the amount of stuns compared to fear and charm effects in the game, this one's basic math, I have faith in you for this one. 2) They have a damage cap or are dispellable, excluding warrior fear regarding dispell.

Those 2 points make them 1) more numerous and 2) more deadly, think for yourself please.

[DamnOriginal]

Having 3 second kidneys on you is an extremly big deal (keeping the example size small here, since we established it as very situational). And the value of stun reduction increases linear, the more you get the better it gets.

There you go again asserting that 0.5 sec less on some stuns is somehow an EXTREMELY BIG deal in these very nondescript specific situations that might as well not exist. it's just made up wankery that makes sense to you but isn't really grounded in fact in any meaningful way for me to even have anything to refute anymore because it's all personal opinion based on personal experience that has little to no value in a factual discussion. A linear increase means it increases at the same rate constantly, not "the more you get the better it gets", that's an exponential increase, something that is completely false with the current highest values you can have. The max stun reduction orcs can get in arena is 38.8%, not 50% like you seem to be confused with those magical 3 second kidney shots. A human in contrast can get 28%, a difference of only 10.8% stun reduction. A 6 sec stun would then last around 3.7 secs on the orc and 4.3 secs on the human, a difference of 0.6 seconds. Wow, If only the human didn't have 200 more raw stats to distribute than the orc, this comparison might make a lick of sense.

You are ignoring literally everything and mention damage 24/7, no one here even speaks about that. Everyone agrees without a doubt that human provides the highest dps, but what we speak up for is the defensive value, outlasting certain combs is a very common tactic. Let's make a 2s scenario to keep it simple, you run into spriest rogue. Reducing the overall stun duration on you from 10 seconds (CS kidney) to 5, is massive. It doubles the time you have to defend yourself, better your positioning or to simply prevent cc on your healer. This is a value that math does not show you, it's experience and practice. But hey, let's follow what you suggested shall we? "People way better then you disagree with you',

This is just your failure to understand what the numbers I showed you actually represent. 200 more stats on your gear isn't just more damage, it's also flexibility to focus on defensive stats, like resilience, without losing damage while also having your burst stats contained in a massive proc so you can focus all your damage in 30 sec windows. Your comparison between 10 seconds of total stuns going to 5 seconds shows us how little you understand of the actual numbers. With all the stun reduction available to them, a human would have to sit through 7.2 seconds, while the orc will sit through 6.1, a difference of 1.1 sec, not 5 secs like you're trying to portray here, while the human also has the option of having 200 more resilience during the stun and the added bonus of a 700 stat proc for the counter kill. Your "experience and practice" have contributed nothing but made up numbers and scenarios so far.

But hey, let's follow what you suggested shall we? "People way better then you disagree with you', a Blizzcon champion share a very popular opinion on warriors in Wotlk (Hint: not yours), but your calculator shares yours at least. Once you learn that PvP is not PvE and there's more to it then raw DPS, we can gladly continue this discussion. I don't think you are an *****, I just believe you are ignorant, so I do have faith you'll improve in this aspect.

Why do you keep mentioning Blizzcon and Legion when this discussion is centered around a private server with heavy access to PvE gear? Let's for a second ignore the fact that you're not providing any sources and talking out of your anus here once again and pretend like this guy is in fact some kind of orc racial activist. Guess what? It doesn't matter because not only will his one opinion have no real effect on the overall consensus but also be mostly irrelevant as he comes from a completely different meta.

I mean, this has nothing to do with the orc topic. But there's a reason why rogues started switching to Belf at the end of S8, even with humans doing more damage, it's not all about raw dps. But buttom line is, if you feel you have no uses for orcs, that's cool. It's your opinion and that's fine, it's an opinion and experience discussion after all.

Once again I've explained multiple times that the human racial isn't just "more damage", it's more stats in general. I can only explain this to you so many times before I lose interest in repeating myself like some sort of special ed teacher. If the point of a heavy pressure class like warrior isn't mainly damage, then why do we see the complete opposite on the Warmane armory where every single top warrior is gearing for maximum damage and passing on stun reduction meta? Obviously, they don't know how to play their class and you know better.

[Mercy]

So what are you up to besides replying to this?

Working on getting my M+ ranks up and getting bored with farming ToS. Logging in on TBC to try and raid 2-3 nights with my guild there when I have time away from work. Also working on my priest's rating so I can get the elite transmog. That's about all that's worth noting.
You?

[sukacakers]

You are ignoring literally everything and mention damage 24/7, no one here even speaks about that. Everyone agrees without a doubt that human provides the highest dps, but what we speak up for is the defensive value, outlasting certain combs is a very common tactic. Let's make a 2s scenario to keep it simple, you run into spriest rogue. Reducing the overall stun duration on you from 10 seconds (CS kidney) to 5, is massive. It doubles the time you have to defend yourself, better your positioning or to simply prevent cc on your healer. This is a value that math does not show you, it's experience and practice. But hey, let's follow what you suggested shall we? "People way better then you disagree with you', a Blizzcon champion share a very popular opinion on warriors in Wotlk (Hint: not yours), but your calculator shares yours at least. Once you learn that PvP is not PvE and there's more to it then raw DPS, we can gladly continue this discussion. I don't think you are an *****, I just believe you are ignorant, so I do have faith you'll improve in this aspect.

I mean, this has nothing to do with the orc topic. But there's a reason why rogues started switching to Belf at the end of S8, even with humans doing more damage, it's not all about raw dps. But buttom line is, if you feel you have no uses for orcs, that's cool. It's your opinion and that's fine, it's an opinion and experience discussion after all.

The best defense is a good offense.
You cant realy compare retail s8 to current meta, most of the ppl had like 4 binds back then. Also pressure will help ****ton more to outlast than simply eating stuns and damage with your beast racials.

[Panofsky]

You cant realy compare retail s8 to current meta, most of the ppl had like 4 binds back then.

False. During season 8 many great pvp players were already going for the competition. Check Hoodrych, Reckful, Tehseus... they definetly didin't use only 5 keybinds.

[sukacakers]

False. During season 8 many great pvp players were already going for the competition. Check Hoodrych, Reckful, Tehseus... they definetly didin't use only 5 keybinds.

It was ment with grain of sarcasm obv...

[zwitter321]

Also pressure will help ****ton more to outlast than simply eating stuns

You can't press someone when you are stunned.
The longer you are stunned the longer you can not press.

Damn, you must be special.

[sukacakers]

You can't press someone when you are stunned.
The longer you are stunned the longer you can not press.

Damn, you must be special.

Yes that 0,5 shorter stun is totally going to compensate losing extra stats or proc, gl with that logic.

[Skoobydoo]

This is just your failure to understand what the numbers I showed you actually represent. 200 more stats on your gear isn't just more damage, it's also flexibility to focus on defensive stats, like resilience, without losing damage while also having your burst stats contained in a massive proc so you can focus all your damage in 30 sec windows. Your comparison between 10 seconds of total stuns going to 5 seconds shows us how little you understand of the actual numbers. With all the stun reduction available to them, a human would have to sit through 7.2 seconds, while the orc will sit through 6.1, a difference of 1.1 sec, not 5 secs like you're trying to portray here, while the human also has the option of having 200 more resilience during the stun and the added bonus of a 700 stat proc for the counter kill. Your "experience and practice" have contributed nothing but made up numbers and scenarios so far.

i agree with everything you say just wanna add that even if you dont look at the dmg boost and only focus on def point of view human is still better because you can simple go for Corroded Skeleton Key as 2nd trinket and its infinity better then 0.5sec less stun duration you will get as orc.

You can't press someone when you are stunned.
The longer you are stunned the longer you can not press.

Damn, you must be special.

0.5 sec almost dont have any impact of the game.have extra trinket will make you apply way more presure then 0.5sec extra stun duration.it also aside of rogues and paladin( that can be dispelled btw) who else have 5 sec stun in the game? The 10%/15% less stun duration you get as orc is literally almost completely useless vs any other class then rogue.
also someone pointed early "dont look at current warmane meta"....well wtf else to look like?this is the server we are playing and the teams we are going to face.if rogue teams almost do not exist on warmane why will anyone give a **** about orc racial?

[Ricks2]

short

Can't be bothered to drag this on anymore, it's incredibly pointless, but I still love you Bae xoxo.

Working on getting my M+ ranks up and getting bored with farming ToS. Logging in on TBC to try and raid 2-3 nights with my guild there when I have time away from work. Also working on my priest's rating so I can get the elite transmog. That's about all that's worth noting.
You?

Ya know, just waiting for vanill and trying to cap my 2s, but bad ping isnt my best friend.

[zwitter321]

it also aside of rogues and paladin( that can be dispelled btw) who else have 5 sec stun in the game?

Mages and ferals.
Whatever.

Every taunka going full deff instantly reminds me this topic.

0.5 sec almost dont have any impact of the game.

There were at least two AT videos where these 0.5 seconds on warrior decided holy paladin's death.

[Skoobydoo]

Mages and ferals.
Whatever.

Every taunka going full deff instantly reminds me this topic.


There were at least two AT videos where these 0.5 seconds on warrior decided holy paladin's death.

sure i forgot about ferals and deep freeze.so 4 out of the 10 wow classes have 5 sec stun mage/paladin one can be dispelled and rogue/feral almost do not exist on warmane ladder.....yes looks like this extra 10% will be super handy.

also care to link this videos?
btw there is at least thousand videos of human warrior killing holy paladin while not having this 0.5 sec,but hey if there is 2 AT videos ...it must be true orc is as good as human. or even better.all this 95 of top 100 teams on blackrock and icecrown,they have been wrong all this years.you better show them this AT videos so they realize they have been playing the wrong race this whole time.

i dont think you understand how minor overall impact of having 10% less stun duration is on your overall games.lets say you play 500 arena games how many of them this 10% will effect the outcome of the game?
as for 2nd trinket you will have his benefit in 100% of your games vs any comp you play.

[DamnOriginal]

i agree with everything you say just wanna add that even if you dont look at the dmg boost and only focus on def point of view human is still better because you can simple go for Corroded Skeleton Key as 2nd trinket and its infinity better then 0.5sec less stun duration you will get as orc.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. A human can easily get an extra defensive cd by using a defensive trinket, making them better at countering burst than orcs and still doing basically the same damage. There isn't a single situation in arena where you can't make use of the human racial in way that makes it better than the orc ones, it's better at both preventing you from dying and making your enemies die faster depending on what trinkets you choose to use and judging by the pretty much unanimous decision of every top warrior on Warmane to use DBW and Scale, raw damage makes for a far greater impact in terms of win rates.

Can't be bothered to drag this on anymore, it's incredibly pointless, but I still love you Bae xoxo.

I'm sorry I ruined your enthusiasm of pretending to know what you're talking about. Your replies have most definitely been incredibly pointless and I greatly appreciate your decision to stop staining this thread with false and irrelevant information.

There were at least two AT videos where these 0.5 seconds on warrior decided holy paladin's death.

I'm sure there are multiple videos out there, sources for which you of course can't provide for very understandable reasons, that depict a brave orc warrior scoring that clutch kill on the enemy healer thanks to his racial prowess, a feat that just makes you go "Wow, there's no way 1400 attack power would've helped in that kill in any way!".

[Ricks2]

I'm sorry I ruined your enthusiasm of pretending to know what you're talking about. Your replies have most definitely been incredibly pointless and I greatly appreciate your decision to stop staining this thread with false and irrelevant information.

Oh no worries Bae, I'm used to Moltens forum glads by now. I'm here since for ever, you just accept at some point that some people can't be helped, xoxo.

[Griste]

I'm sorry for using the most comprehensive tool we have for tracking dominant factors in arena PvP, I didn't mean to offend you with facts and numbers. I should've just based my entire opinion on personal feelings, in spite of the evidence, like you.

Lmao, rekted