Gargoyle Snapshot Mechanics and Artificial Delays – Request for Clarification

Hello everyone,

I have been extensively testing the Unholy DK Gargoyle on Warmane and would like to ask the developers, or anyone with deep knowledge of the server's core, to clarify some points about how it actually works.

I have read the original theory about haste snapshots, the difference between melee and spell haste, and how different buffs should affect the Gargoyle's cast time. However, after analyzing numerous logs and conducting in-game tests, I have noticed several inconsistencies. I would appreciate some official clarification.

**1. Snapshot Mechanics – What exactly is snapshotted?**

As I understand it, the Gargoyle snapshots the player's stats at the moment of summoning (Attack Power and Attack Speed).
- Is this still how it works on Warmane?
- Does it snapshot only Attack Power and melee haste, or does it also snapshot spell haste?
- If a buff fades after the summon, does the Gargoyle lose its effect immediately, or does it remain locked in?

**2. Melee Haste vs. Spell Haste – Which one actually works?**

Theoretically, the Gargoyle is a melee pet, so it should only benefit from melee haste buffs.
However, on some private servers, spell haste buffs (such as Wrath of Air Totem, Retribution Aura, or Moonkin Aura) also reduce its cast time.

How does this work on Warmane?
- Does the Gargoyle benefit from spell haste at all?
- If yes, which specific buffs affect it, and how are they calculated?

**3. Artificial Delays – Is there a built-in delay after summoning?**

In my logs, I consistently observe a delay between summoning the Gargoyle and its first attack:
- The first cast starts ~2.5 seconds after summoning.
- The first damage lands ~4.5 seconds after summoning.

As far as I remember, this behavior is expected, as it flies in from the sky (which accounts for the animation time).
- Can this delay be reduced by positioning or other factors?

**4. Maximum Number of Casts – Is there a hard cap?**

I have heard that on Warmane, the Gargoyle is capped at 32 casts per summon, even if your haste would allow for more.
- Is this true?
- If so, is this a server-side limitation, or is it related to the Gargoyle's 30-second lifetime combined with the 2-second arrival delay?
- Does this limit apply to all targets, or only to training dummies?

From my logs, I see that the start time of each cast varies (for example, 2.015 seconds between the 1st and 2nd cast, 1.996 seconds between the 2nd and 3rd, 2.118 seconds between the 3rd and 4th, and so on). If the snapshot system is working correctly, shouldn't the cast time and the time between casts always be the same (provided positioning doesn't change)? I tested this on a training dummy. I didn't move, I summoned in one spot and stood still; the dummy also stood still without moving.

**5. Buff Stacking – How are multiple haste buffs combined?**

When multiple melee haste buffs are active simultaneously (e.g., Unholy Presence, Improved Icy Talons, and Heroism), how are they combined?
- Are they additive or multiplicative?
- Do they affect the Gargoyle differently than they affect the player?

I am not asking for formulas or hidden numbers — just a clear explanation of how the mechanics are *supposed* to work on Warmane.

If any developer, administrator, or experienced theorycrafter could shed some light on this, it would greatly help Unholy DKs optimize their gameplay.

Thank you in advance.

P.S. I wrote this message with the help of a translator and AI to make it easier for you to understand what I am asking, as I am a Russian-speaking player and do not have a very good command of the English language.

On the original WOTLK it worked like this:
The gargoyle took a snapshot of the speed and attack power at the time of summoning and kept these indicators until the end of the action.
The melee attack speed was converted to the spell casting speed.
The speed modifiers for the Gargoyle Strike caste must be multiplicative.
The formula for the speed of casting a spell is Base Casting Time / (1 + (% Spell Haste/100))
The gargoyle has no GCD and no restrictions on the number of spells used.


evidence, video from the original WOTLK 15 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA5I7jCqyfg

Speed buffs: Unholy Presence, Icy Talons, Bloodlust, Windfury Totem
2 / (1.15 * 1.2 * 1.30 * 1.16) = 0.96

Thank you for the explanation. I also assumed the casting speed formula would be: Cast Time = 2 seconds / (1 + (Spell Haste % / 100)).

However, there’s something that still confuses me:
The Gargoyle does not have a Global Cooldown (GCD) and, in theory, should have no limits on how many times it can cast.

From what I’ve seen on our server, either there is a hidden limit on the number of casts, or the Gargoyle has some kind of built-in delay between casts.
With all procs and buffs active, reaching a cast time of 0.5 seconds is not difficult — so in theory, it should cast far more than it actually does.

That’s why I’d like to know:

Is there a hard cap on how many times the Gargoyle can cast during its lifetime?

Does it have an artificial GCD or a fixed delay between casts?

If so, what exactly are those limits?

The reason I’m asking is simple: I want to calculate exactly how much haste I need to snapshot in order to reach the maximum possible number of casts (which I’ve heard is 32 on Warmane).
Any haste beyond that cap could then be reforged or replaced with Strength, Attack Power, or other stats without losing performance.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

It seems to me that the formula for calculating the speed of gargoyle spells on Warmane is currently incorrect or there is a limit. Right now, with a perfect shot, she's using 29-32 spells, and she should be using about 40.

Pohodu vsem burgam pohui na etu gargu)

After some calculations, I realized what the problem was. On Warmane, the speed indicators are calculated additively, not multiplicatively.

**Analysis of the Gargoyle: Calculating Cast Time in Raid Conditions**
What will the Gargoyle's cast time be in a specific situation?

In this post, I will break down the formula for calculating the cast time of the Gargoyle, taking into account:
- static haste from gear
- raid buffs (melee haste and spell haste)
- on-use effects (engineering gloves, haste potion)
- procs (meta gem, trinket, Black Magic enchant)

This is all theory — at least on other private servers, it works more or less like this:

---

### 1. What Affects the Gargoyle's Cast Speed

The Gargoyle snapshots the player's stats at the moment of summoning.
The following are taken into account:

#### 1.1 Haste Rating
- static haste from gear (denoted as **X**)
- on-use effects:
— engineering gloves (+340)
— haste potion (+500)
- procs:
— meta gem (+480)
— trinket (Deathbringer's Will (600/700), Comet's Trail (726), or Meteorite Whetstone (444))
— Black Magic enchant (+250)

We denote the sum of all these values as **Haste_rating**.

#### 1.2 Buffs That Increase Melee Attack Speed (Melee Haste)
These buffs affect the final haste percentage using the formula:
`Haste_% = (Haste_rating / 25.21) * K + D`
where **K** is the sum of coefficients, and **D** is the sum of additive bonuses.

- [Unholy Presence](http://wowroad.info/?spell=48265): +15% (K₁ = 1.15, D₁ = 15)
- [Icy Talons](http://wowroad.info/?spell=50887): +20% (K₂ = 1.2, D₂ = 20)
- [Improved Icy Talons](http://wowroad.info/?spell=55610): +20% (K₃ = 1.2, D₃ = 20)

If all three are active, then:
**K = 1.55, D = 55**

#### 1.3 Buffs That Reduce Cast Time (Spell Haste)
These act as **separate multipliers** that divide the cast time after melee haste has been applied.

**Group 1 (summed into one multiplier):**
- [Bloodlust / Heroism](http://wowroad.info/?spell=2825): 30% (divide by 1.3)

**Group 2 (summed into one multiplier):**
- [Swift Retribution](http://wowroad.info/?spell=53648): 3% (divide by 1.03)
- [Improved Moonkin Form](http://wowroad.info/?spell=48396): 3% (divide by 1.03)
- [Berserking](http://wowroad.info/?spell=26297) (trolls only): 20% (divide by 1.2)

These buffs are combined into a single multiplier:
`1.03 * 1.03 = 1.0609` — for non-troll races
`1.03 * 1.03 * 1.2 = 1.27308` — for trolls with Berserking

---

### 2. General Formula for Cast Time

First, convert rating to a percentage:
`base_% = Haste_rating / 25.21`

Then apply melee haste buffs:
`haste_% = base_% * K + D`

Cast time without spell haste buffs:
`T_raw = 2 / (1 + haste_% / 100)`

Final cast time including spell haste buffs:
`T_final = T_raw / (M1 * M2)`

where:
- **M1** — multiplier from Group 1 (e.g., 1.3 for Heroism)
- **M2** — multiplier from Group 2 (1.0609 for non-trolls, 1.273 for trolls)

---

### 3. Calculation Examples

#### Example 1: Non-Troll with Full Procs

**Conditions:**
- Static haste from gear: **X = 187**
- On-use effects: gloves (+340) + haste potion (+500) = 840
- Procs: meta gem (+480) + Black Magic (+250) = 730 (assume all procced)
- **Haste_rating = 187 + 840 + 730 = 1757**
- Buffs: Unholy Presence, Icy Talons, Improved Icy Talons, Heroism, Swift Retribution, Improved Moonkin Form
- Race: non-troll

**Calculation:**
1. `base_% = 1757 / 25.21 ≈ 69.7%`
2. `haste_% = 69.7 * 1.55 + 55 = 108.0 + 55 = 163.0%`
3. `T_raw = 2 / (1 + 1.63) = 2 / 2.63 ≈ 0.760 sec`
4. Multipliers:
M1 = 1.3 (Heroism)
M2 = 1.03 * 1.03 = 1.0609 (Retri + Moonkin)
5. `T_final = 0.760 / (1.3 * 1.0609) = 0.760 / 1.379 ≈ 0.551 sec`

**Result:**
Gargoyle cast time = **0.55 seconds**

---

#### Example 2: Troll with Berserking, No Meta Gem, 330 Static Haste

**Conditions:**
- Static haste from gear: **X = 330**
- On-use effects: gloves (+340) + haste potion (+500) = 840
- Procs: ❌ no meta gem, ❌ no Black Magic, ❌ no trinket proc
- **Haste_rating = 330 + 840 = 1170**
- Buffs: Unholy Presence, Icy Talons, Improved Icy Talons, Heroism, Swift Retribution, Improved Moonkin Form
- **Racial:** Berserking (troll) – included in Group 2 multiplier
- Race: troll

**Calculation:**
1. `base_% = 1170 / 25.21 ≈ 46.41%`
2. `haste_% = 46.41 * 1.55 + 55 = 71.94 + 55 = 126.94%`
3. `T_raw = 2 / (1 + 1.2694) = 2 / 2.2694 ≈ 0.881 sec`
4. Multipliers:
M1 = 1.3 (Heroism)
M2 = 1.03 * 1.03 * 1.2 = 1.27308 (Retri + Moonkin + Berserking)
5. `T_final = 0.881 / (1.3 * 1.27308) = 0.881 / 1.655 ≈ 0.532 sec`

**Result:**
Gargoyle cast time = **0.532 seconds**

---

### 4. Observations

- Even without meta gem, Black Magic, or trinket procs, the troll with **330 static haste** achieves a **0.532 sec** cast time.
- Example 1: `27.5 / 0.551 ≈ 49.9 casts`
- Example 2: `27.5 / 0.532 ≈ 51.7 casts`

Is this a correct calculation or am I making a mistake somewhere?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Szopachnik

Hello everyone,

I have been extensively testing the Unholy DK Gargoyle on Warmane and would like to ask the developers, or anyone with deep knowledge of the server's core, to clarify some points about how it actually works.

I have read the original theory about haste snapshots, the difference between melee and spell haste, and how different buffs should affect the Gargoyle's cast time. However, after analyzing numerous logs and conducting in-game tests, I have noticed several inconsistencies. I would appreciate some official clarification.

**1. Snapshot Mechanics – What exactly is snapshotted?**

As I understand it, the Gargoyle snapshots the player's stats at the moment of summoning (Attack Power and Attack Speed).
- Is this still how it works on Warmane?
- Does it snapshot only Attack Power and melee haste, or does it also snapshot spell haste?
- If a buff fades after the summon, does the Gargoyle lose its effect immediately, or does it remain locked in?

**2. Melee Haste vs. Spell Haste – Which one actually works?**

Theoretically, the Gargoyle is a melee pet, so it should only benefit from melee haste buffs.
However, on some private servers, spell haste buffs (such as Wrath of Air Totem, Retribution Aura, or Moonkin Aura) also reduce its cast time.

How does this work on Warmane?
- Does the Gargoyle benefit from spell haste at all?
- If yes, which specific buffs affect it, and how are they calculated?

**3. Artificial Delays – Is there a built-in delay after summoning?**

In my logs, I consistently observe a delay between summoning the Gargoyle and its first attack:
- The first cast starts ~2.5 seconds after summoning.
- The first damage lands ~4.5 seconds after summoning.

As far as I remember, this behavior is expected, as it flies in from the sky (which accounts for the animation time).
- Can this delay be reduced by positioning or other factors?

**4. Maximum Number of Casts – Is there a hard cap?**

I have heard that on Warmane, the Gargoyle is capped at 32 casts per summon, even if your haste would allow for more.
- Is this true?
- If so, is this a server-side limitation, or is it related to the Gargoyle's 30-second lifetime combined with the 2-second arrival delay?
- Does this limit apply to all targets, or only to training dummies?

From my logs, I see that the start time of each cast varies (for example, 2.015 seconds between the 1st and 2nd cast, 1.996 seconds between the 2nd and 3rd, 2.118 seconds between the 3rd and 4th, and so on). If the snapshot system is working correctly, shouldn't the cast time and the time between casts always be the same (provided positioning doesn't change)? I tested this on a training dummy. I didn't move, I summoned in one spot and stood still; the dummy also stood still without moving.

**5. Buff Stacking – How are multiple haste buffs combined?**

When multiple melee haste buffs are active simultaneously (e.g., Unholy Presence, Improved Icy Talons, and Heroism), how are they combined?
- Are they additive or multiplicative?
- Do they affect the Gargoyle differently than they affect the player?

I am not asking for formulas or hidden numbers — just a clear explanation of how the mechanics are *supposed* to work on Warmane.

If any developer, administrator, or experienced theorycrafter could shed some light on this, it would greatly help Unholy DKs optimize their gameplay.

Thank you in advance.

P.S. I wrote this message with the help of a translator and AI to make it easier for you to understand what I am asking, as I am a Russian-speaking player and do not have a very good command of the English language.

---

i think Gary is limited, because there is a global cooldown, on Warmane. Not because, it doesnt snapshot everything else, it does, but the cast time, gets lower, than the GCD.
Haste lowers your global cooldown, and u can lower it, low enough, to where, if you use Haste Pot, Black Magic proc, DBW gives you Haste proc and Troll racial, it will go easily under the GCD cap, with BIS Gear. I've gotten my Gary go as low as a 0.5 Second cast, with a GCD of 1 second, which would sound, like a waste, but it does get 1 more shot, at the end of the animation, before it flies up.
If you wanna test stuff on Unholy, i suggest using DC/DV with STS, as it is much more consistent in testing, even tho in Raid DBW, will give you better DPS, output 90% of the time.

As the developer wrote in the bug tracker, the only reason the gargoyle can't get more than 32 casts right now (very, very rarely 33 casts) is an artificial delay of 200 to 600 ms between casts (emphasis on artificial). And this is based on some very old video, unclear where it was recorded or from which server.