Concerns Regarding the Blackrock and Onyxia Server Merge

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Originally Posted by harrpaniz1

Its so strange to me to go to these threads and be bombarded with the term "fairness" when it seems the term you were looking for was "advantage".

I have not seen one single thread decrying the fact that Blackrock started without any reputation grind or gear. Where is the outpouring and threads about how unfair that is to Blackrock?
I have not seen a single thread decrying the fact that Onyxia players had time to get Grand Marshal gear by saving up currency before Blackrock was even released giving Onyxia a possible gear advantage. Where is the outpouring and threads about how unfair that is to Blackrock?
I have not seen a single thread decrying the fact that Blackrock has no professions while Onyxia has them. Where is the outpouring and threads about how unfair that is to Blackrock?

To me its simple; term you seem to be looking for is "advantage". You dont think Onyxia players have enough of an advantage over Blackrock players, fairness is not what is actually up for discussion here. If it were then you would agree that Blackrock should have crafting, professions, and get some free currency just so we can potentially compete with the people who grinded before Blackrock even opened, right? Again, this is never up for debate because fairness is not what is being discussed.

Ive said it before and i'll say it again: Complaining and being concerned is fine, but atleast be reasonable and honest when stating what you want. If you don't like progression, don't play a progression server. If what you want is instant gear or to be at the same level or higher than other players, why are you playing a realm where the entire idea is to progress in terms of gear, it should be completely fine to you that players in fact do not have the same gear and you may not even be rewarded for playing a lot because of the rolls and rng involved.

In terms of OPs suggestions, I only play Blackrock and I couldn't care less about Onyxia, but I agree that Blackrock can be left a week or two behind Onyxia, that way really dedicated players can potentially snag a piece of loot or two before Blackrock becomes a factor in terms of getting the gear by means of PVP. I even think certain items could be a little bit more expensive on Blackrock (for instance potions, something i've been consistent about on WOTLK aswell, where Blackrock players used to drink Free Action Potions on cooldown when they were free of charge).

What I disagree about is your (OPs) notion that because Blackrock players tend to be very good at arenas, they should be punished or the (in this case) worse players should be rewarded. Would you say the same about PVE? If a guild can't clear a raid it should be made easier for them, or they should be able to buy the gear for emblems? To me it just sounds like a skill issue, and I say that as somebody whos peak on Warmane is 2.3k in 2s, and I have never played TBC ever before. I don't think I should be rewarded for not being good at the game.

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First, I was wondering if you were incapable of reading and absorbing information, but then you clarified it at the end of your message: you simply play on Blackrock and refuse to acknowledge the issue. However, if it’s the case that you genuinely don’t understand, I’ll clearly break down my thoughts below.

1: You say you haven’t seen a single thread where people complain about the unfairness towards Blackrock. Uh, what? This is Onyxia’s forum, isn’t it? Why would I complain about something I’ve never been a part of? If people from Blackrock are complaining, I have absolutely no problem with that. But my main point is that I don’t want Onyxia and Blackrock to merge—this argument becomes entirely irrelevant. These are two servers operating under completely different conditions, and they should remain separate.

2: Unfairness towards Blackrock? It’s been a week since TBC was released, and just yesterday I saw a Rogue from Blackrock with 13 (!!) epics—after a single week. How can you even talk about unfairness?

3: Read what people are writing. The majority don’t want the servers to merge—so how can you talk about unfairness or advantages? I couldn’t care less about what happens on Blackrock, but don’t make two servers with wildly different conditions share the same playing field. Don’t merge the servers, and both your argument and mine about unfairness are eliminated immediately. You even wrote that you couldn’t care less about Onyxia—great, then let Blackrock face Blackrock, and everyone will be happy and satisfied.

4: "If you don't like progression, don't play a progression server. If what you want is instant gear or to be at the same level or higher than other players, why are you playing a realm where the entire idea is to progress in terms of gear?" This has to be the most bizarre statement ever. Can you not see how contradictory it is? Yes, I like playing on a progression server. That’s WHY I’m playing on Onyxia. That’s why I DON'T like playing against people who DON'T have the same conditions. Let me give you a real-life example so it’s maybe a bit more clear to you: I enjoy playing Monopoly, but I don’t want to play Monopoly if my opponents have unlimited money. Makes sense, doesn’t it? The enjoyment of a game changes if the rule set differs between the players, that doesn't mean that I have an issue with the ordinary game itself.

The entire point is that the playing field should be fair. If Blackrock wants its own rule set, Perfect! Blackrock players play against eachother, then you play against players who share the same perspective.

I dont understand, at least for BGs why the realms cant be separated - on Blackrock there are plenty of players that can play vs each other in mercenary mode. For casuals like me pvp on Onyxia is killed, because I know I never get BIS items from PVE on Onyxia (until I buy it) and grinders on Blackrock can always farm it.

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Originally Posted by pakon33

I dont understand, at least for BGs why the realms cant be separated - on Blackrock there are plenty of players that can play vs each other in mercenary mode. For casuals like me pvp on Onyxia is killed, because I know I never get BIS items from PVE on Onyxia (until I buy it) and grinders on Blackrock can always farm it.

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I think currently they could split bgs ye, if they remove the quest line for karazhan loots on blackrock so we can just Q in random bg it would probably not kill the bg scene currently on either realms (you can forget about Av tho but its a ****ty bg anyways). But what about in a month ? What about in the middle of season 3 ? Ye bgs will be completely impossible to do for ppl a bit late on season start grind on both realms.

Tbh like why do you guys care so much ? Just Q in grey gear and half afk in the bg to farm for your gear, we wont mind

+1 demoralized. Doubt about continuing on Onyxia. Back in 2018, warmane Outland server didn’t have cross-realm functionality, and battlegrounds were still full of players. I don’t see the reason for merging more servers now.

It takes exactly one single working brain cell to know where this is going, especially that early, yet they ruined pvp.

Iam out of words here for this.

harrpaniz1 How tired of you... Why are you trying to impose on all players with Onyxia that they SHOULD WANT to play with blackrock???? you clearly have problems...Go silently play afk bg and enjoy how you beat low gear ppls from Onyxia, its so funny XD

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Originally Posted by Wipp15

First, I was wondering if you were incapable of reading and absorbing information, but then you clarified it at the end of your message: you simply play on Blackrock and refuse to acknowledge the issue. However, if it’s the case that you genuinely don’t understand, I’ll clearly break down my thoughts below.

1: You say you haven’t seen a single thread where people complain about the unfairness towards Blackrock. Uh, what? This is Onyxia’s forum, isn’t it? Why would I complain about something I’ve never been a part of? If people from Blackrock are complaining, I have absolutely no problem with that. But my main point is that I don’t want Onyxia and Blackrock to merge—this argument becomes entirely irrelevant. These are two servers operating under completely different conditions, and they should remain separate.

2: Unfairness towards Blackrock? It’s been a week since TBC was released, and just yesterday I saw a Rogue from Blackrock with 13 (!!) epics—after a single week. How can you even talk about unfairness?

3: Read what people are writing. The majority don’t want the servers to merge—so how can you talk about unfairness or advantages? I couldn’t care less about what happens on Blackrock, but don’t make two servers with wildly different conditions share the same playing field. Don’t merge the servers, and both your argument and mine about unfairness are eliminated immediately. You even wrote that you couldn’t care less about Onyxia—great, then let Blackrock face Blackrock, and everyone will be happy and satisfied.

4: "If you don't like progression, don't play a progression server. If what you want is instant gear or to be at the same level or higher than other players, why are you playing a realm where the entire idea is to progress in terms of gear?" This has to be the most bizarre statement ever. Can you not see how contradictory it is? Yes, I like playing on a progression server. That’s WHY I’m playing on Onyxia. That’s why I DON'T like playing against people who DON'T have the same conditions. Let me give you a real-life example so it’s maybe a bit more clear to you: I enjoy playing Monopoly, but I don’t want to play Monopoly if my opponents have unlimited money. Makes sense, doesn’t it? The enjoyment of a game changes if the rule set differs between the players, that doesn't mean that I have an issue with the ordinary game itself.

The entire point is that the playing field should be fair. If Blackrock wants its own rule set, Perfect! Blackrock players play against eachother, then you play against players who share the same perspective.

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We both play on this server together. Just like I don't undermine your very uninformed opinion just because you come from Onyxia, you shouldn't undermine mine for chosing to play on Blackrock. I don't yuck your yum, I think we can both exist on the same server and even in the same BG's.

1. Because you guys argue about fairness. Thats like saying "why would Blackrock players talk about fairness for Onyxia players", yet here I am, doing exactly that. You talk about being "incapable of reading" but yet you seem to have missed that I actually criticise things on Blackrock in this very thread. If you were truly interested in fairness, which is now not even up for question, these are things that would be discussed. You saying that "on the Onyxia forums we only talk about how to give Onyxia players an advantage" kind of defeats your own argument. I know you just want an advantage, that was kind of the point of my original post.

2. So because one player has played a lot they should be punished? Should this be the same for the players who had full Grand Marshal, enchants and professions on Onyxia before week one was over? I don't think so, they played a lot and as such got rewarded, even if it could be seen as an advantage over Blackrock since the realm didnt exist, the gear was and to a degree still is unobtainable and we don't have professions. I'm fine with that though.

3. Can you show me statistical evidence showing how "The majority don't want the servers to merge"? First of all, the servers are not merging, the battlegrounds are. Secondly, a loud percentage of the population of Onyxia are for sure against this merge and it's worth listening to their complaints. I always think the GMs should pay attention to what players (regardless of size of demography) think about their realm. This was true about the FAPs on WOTLK Blackrock and it was true when Lord, Blackrock and Icecrown merged. As long as the argument is reasonable, I think it's worth considering. The problem is when arguments aren't reasonable and you get posts that start with ad hominem rambling instead of coherent argumentation based on proper premises.

4. "Yes, I like playing on a progression server." - Good, then there should be no problem for you facing both players with potentially better gear and potentially worse gear. Nobody on a progression realm has the same conditions. Some people luck out on first raid lockout with a ton of gear, some people have a character that happens to be really good in a majority of the patch, some people get relentlessly ganked. What conditions do you mean are the same? That if you play a lot you have a bigger opportunity for gear? Yeah, thats true for Blackrock too. If you don't want to play Monopoly against people with unlimited money then you definitely don't wanna play on Blackrock, on there how much gold their opponents have saved up in GDKps in the previous patch actually determines how crazy their gear, enchants and professions are.

"The entire point is that the playing field should be fair." - No. WoW has never been fair. Progression is never fair. Some classes quite literally have a built in advantage. Some classes have gear that drops way more frequently in raids than others. Races and their racials are hierarchically different. There is no fairness. You can try to strive towards it, and you can certainly say that some items are a little bit too unfair, but in that case we should probably pre-emptively ban the legendary items that are coming later in the patch.

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Originally Posted by hero63

harrpaniz1 How tired of you... Why are you trying to impose on all players with Onyxia that they SHOULD WANT to play with blackrock???? you clearly have problems...Go silently play afk bg and enjoy how you beat low gear ppls from Onyxia, its so funny XD

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If you don't want it then you don't want it. Making up fairy tale arguments like "you only enjoy this because you beat people with low gear" is just a strawman argument, and a funny one at that considering i've even said that I have never played TBC in my entire life. I have no idea what im doing, I'm playing a paladin and I'm not seal twisting, that should tell you everything you need to know.

Instead of projecting what you think is going on onto me, can you tell me why you think this new system of BGs with Blackrock is bad?

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Originally Posted by harrpaniz1

If you don't want it then you don't want it. Making up fairy tale arguments like "you only enjoy this because you beat people with low gear" is just a strawman argument, and a funny one at that considering i've even said that I have never played TBC in my entire life. I have no idea what im doing, I'm playing a paladin and I'm not seal twisting, that should tell you everything you need to know.

Instead of projecting what you think is going on onto me, can you tell me why you think this new system of BGs with Blackrock is bad?

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You have been given a bunch of arguments, but you don't care. Personally, I don't see the point in arguing with you, everyone has already understood that you play blackrock and everything suits you. But your arguments are "ridiculous". What you do in your posts is like a person who sees will prove to a blind person that he sees is not the main thing in life. No one is talking about closing black rock. Everyone asks for balance or independence. Why do you have such a fire in 1 place and you frantically prove that you don't need to do this? If you don't have any benefit, what scares you so much? Why do you write every post if everything suits you? I repeat, I am not talking about the fact that the blackrock server would be closed, we are talking about something else

i have no idea why are u killing pvp on onyxia, its totally unbalanced bgs with those bis characters on blackrock, especially horde pvp, because everyone play aliance on blackrock i think

Well said, I completely agree with this post

You gotta step it up onyxia, go farm faster lmao it's easy, you go into kz and in 3hrs max you have your loots for the week. That was a week 1 clean being drunk with fully green geared players on classic on my side so no excuse go farm and quit yapping. You dont even need hc dungeons tbh just get your raid loots directly

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Originally Posted by Twofpsx

You gotta step it up onyxia, go farm faster lmao it's easy, you go into kz and in 3hrs max you have your loots for the week. That was a week 1 clean being drunk with fully green geared players on classic on my side so no excuse go farm and quit yapping. You dont even need hc dungeons tbh just get your raid loots directly

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^
average highly intelligent blackrock player

They dont care about pvp ppl.
During vanilla, they let ppl farm R14 afk on bridge without any consequences.
Now they cross servers and kill the pvp....again.
I think they hate pvp players.
Thanks warmane, i had a lot of fun during few years with you, but now It's time for me to look elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Illdryalle

They dont care about pvp ppl.
During vanilla, they let ppl farm R14 afk on bridge without any consequences.
Now they cross servers and kill the pvp....again.
I think they hate pvp players.
Thanks warmane, i had a lot of fun during few years with you, but now It's time for me to look elsewhere.

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they love pvp players that is why they gave them the opportunity to do what they enjoy instantly without having to endure other aspects of the game they do not enjoy such as leveling.
if splitting both servers results in better starting gear, less battleground farming on blackrock and less coin flip rng loot system then sign me up for it, just make sure to ban the cringe pve players giving their accounts to people from blackrock on season end for a little boost which will inevitably happen