Realms Lordaeron raid nerf normals and buff heroics

[Frezasan]

That's just your opinion on what "hardcore" means for you.

Ironic too, when you make posts about how they require "perfect composition, overgearing, perfect tactics, no deaths AND 95%+ rotation perfection on class dps from all members of the raid." I guess we lowly mortals don't consider thrice perfection to be just "extra time."

Yep exactly, leave normal as it is and make heroics more difficult

[Blind]

Make a raid team of 10 people with maximum 232 gear, and I will pay you an exhorbitant amount of gold/coins/whatever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXLDRCxiYI
There was a guild named Undergeared doing ICC in ilvl200 blues @15% Buff.

Iirc they downed 7/12 on normal. And all of it without using disord or other form of voicechat.

ICC should be tuned to somewhere around T9/T9.5 + some crafted Items. Maybe an eof piece or two as well from dailys/weeklies or from voa.
Currently it's far from that and most guilds, as is the issue for years, fail due to misplaying mechanics.
Not because they lack the numbers/gear to do something.

Imo raids should be at least kept as is if not buffed to some degree again. At least heroics should be if devs think about nerfing normals. Lordaeron should be a challenge and not a pushover. It's been nerfed enough for the past years.

[zorino]

To be honest, I would prefer a game as it was originally.
Obviously this comment does not diminish any suggestion, it's just an opinion.

[xTheLichKingx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXLDRCxiYI
There was a guild named Undergeared doing ICC in ilvl200 blues @15% Buff.

Iirc they downed 7/12 on normal. And all of it without using disord or other form of voicechat.

ICC should be tuned to somewhere around T9/T9.5 + some crafted Items. Maybe an eof piece or two as well from dailys/weeklies or from voa.
Currently it's far from that and most guilds, as is the issue for years, fail due to misplaying mechanics.
Not because they lack the numbers/gear to do something.

Imo raids should be at least kept as is if not buffed to some degree again. At least heroics should be if devs think about nerfing normals. Lordaeron should be a challenge and not a pushover. It's been nerfed enough for the past years.

Lordaeron: Marrow has 6min enrage /w 12.5m hp w/ 0% buff, those guys fought retail marrow /w 6.9m hp at 15% buff. Lorda is infinitely harder for the casual than that.

I hard-disagree, fester has a higher dps req than even professor. Most guilds, even those that know all mechanics, will struggle to clear fester first, then full clear the entire raid including TLK once fester is downable + add on heroics very fast.

Fester normal needs a nerf. I've not downed fester in a pug w/o atleast 2 heals swapping to dps or some other nonsense.

HC-wise my guild prog'd from 1 heroic to 8 in a couple weeks max. HC is piss easy, and normal is just overtuned imo.

[Obnoxious]

Lorda is infinitely harder for the casual

I don't know how else it can be said or however many people repeating it will take: Lordaeron isn't for the casual.
They are free to join it, of course, but it's them who have to adapt to the server, not the other way around.

[xTheLichKingx]

I don't know how else it can be said or however many people repeating it will take: Lordaeron isn't for the casual.
They are free to join it, of course, but it's them who have to adapt to the server, not the other way around.

I don't disagree on that. I replied to his take that you can clear 12/12(9hc) with fos/pos gear. That's a ridiculous take.

My point regarding the proposed balance changes is still quite strong aswell. Fester dps req's is far higher than anything reasonably possible from the average raid groups.

Sindy/BQL/PP/TLK should require better gear than festergut, but they don't.

[zorino]

I don't know how else it can be said or however many people repeating it will take: Lordaeron isn't for the casual.
They are free to join it, of course, but it's them who have to adapt to the server, not the other way around.

It seems that some players just can't adapt to this approach.

[Blind]

Lordaeron: Marrow has 6min enrage /w 12.5m hp w/ 0% buff, those guys fought retail marrow /w 6.9m hp at 15% buff. Lorda is infinitely harder for the casual than that.

Yes. And Lordaeron should be infinetly harder because retail was criminally undertuned.
Also you don't have to quote numbers here. 12.5m @6 minutes means not even 6k dps needed per dps while disregarding tanks contributing.

I hard-disagree, fester has a higher dps req than even professor. Most guilds, even those that know all mechanics, will struggle to clear fester first, then full clear the entire raid including TLK once fester is downable + add on heroics very fast.

Most guilds will struggle at pp, sindra and lk. Some even at bql. Most because they **** up mechanics and those are the first with actually punishing ones. Gear won't fix bad ooze, tombs, links/flames or defile.

Fester normal needs a nerf. I've not downed fester in a pug w/o atleast 2 heals swapping to dps or some other nonsense.

If your dps in 25 man is that tight it's a you issue with your pugs. Not the realms.

HC-wise my guild prog'd from 1 heroic to 8 in a couple weeks max. HC is piss easy, and normal is just overtuned imo.

To me that mostly screams heroics are too easy. But it's a weird flex considering you're arguing that normal is too hard here.

[Obnoxious]

I don't disagree on that.

reasonably possible from the average raid groups

You contradict yourself within the span of a few lines. An "average raid group" are casuals, people who have some experience with their classes but still make a few mistakes, who have a general idea of WoW mechanics, who might have watched a video about the fight to have a vague idea of what to expect but still need to learn. If you are talking about even less than that, those would need to be carried even in Classic and seriously don't really have a place doing harder content in Lordaeron.

Your proposal is still "quite strong" as far as bringing up Heroics that are too easy up to par with Normals, not the way you imagined it.

[xTheLichKingx]

You contradict yourself within the span of a few lines. An "average raid group" are casuals, people who have some experience with their classes but still make a few mistakes, who have a general idea of WoW mechanics, who might have watched a video about the fight to have a vague idea of what to expect but still need to learn. If you are talking about even less than that, those would need to be carried even in Classic and seriously don't really have a place doing harder content in Lordaeron.

Your proposal is still "quite strong" as far as bringing up Heroics that are too easy up to par with Normals, not the way you imagined it.

That's not a contradiction.
The avg raid plays their char at roughly 75% efficiency on Lorda. 93-96% efficiency is "possible" though, if they played perfectly (which would be guild-based-play expectations). It's not a contradicting statement to say char capacity is less than char reqs, regardless of perfect char performance (assume perfect gameplay/scripting for 100% efficiency aka simming).

[xTheLichKingx]

Yes. And Lordaeron should be infinetly harder because retail was criminally undertuned.
Also you don't have to quote numbers here. 12.5m @6 minutes means not even 6k dps needed per dps while disregarding tanks contributing.



Most guilds will struggle at pp, sindra and lk. Some even at bql. Most because they **** up mechanics and those are the first with actually punishing ones. Gear won't fix bad ooze, tombs, links/flames or defile.


If your dps in 25 man is that tight it's a you issue with your pugs. Not the realms.


To me that mostly screams heroics are too easy. But it's a weird flex considering you're arguing that normal is too hard here.

Wasn't a flex, pp/bql/sindy/lk aren't hard and the tactics are rather easy. Every good raid group struggles with dps reqs on fester then full clears after. 10-man icc is easy and well balanced, the stat reqs are good, however with every boss being mediocre on hc, you can clean house on hc with minimal effort.

Everytime pug on lorda (for 25 man) need to reach these requirements to clear NORMAL MODE BOSSES, not HC/bis loot dropping bosses:
- Perf comp
- 10k dps average from all 18 dps

Fester requirements: (54,500,000 (boss hp) - 1,200,00 (tank dmg) = 53,300,000 (boss hp after tank factor) / 18 (dps) = 177,667 raid dps = 9,870 dps per player average.
- 9,900 dps avg is too high, no other boss but festergut has close to that stat-check.

Here's some cheese tactics Lorda invented to bypass the stat check (A well-tuned stat check would mean you couldn't clear content after if you cheese the stat check, but you can on lorda)
Solo tank: P-Pala will solo boss, bubble to reset stacks, then get Divine intervention to reset stacks a 2nd time allowing to 1-tank the boss. 3 healers: 2 of your healers will swap to dps to help push the over-tuned stat check

Everyone on Lordaeron knows: If you can kill fester, you can full clear the raid easily.

If it's intentional to make the 5th boss in the raid to be harder than the last 4 then fine by me, but the stat check just seems too high.