Realms Lordaeron raid nerf normals and buff heroics

[xTheLichKingx]

While i do understand the frustration , please think of it like this :

a 5.2k player comes to RS, he does a respectable 6k dps , we take 10-15 players like him, and suddenly we're hitting enrage timer on hallion , or worse , we are unable to kill Balthazar.

the reality of lordaeron is that when you hit 5k gs, which is basically getting full 232 gear, you need to go do ToC 25, get a couple of 245 items and trinkets , craft the 264 ICC items that you need , do VoA 10/25 for 2t10 and keep farming frost emblems until you can get 4t10 before you go for icc10 to meet the DPS needed for some bosses.

yes it is frustrating , especially when you dont know people / guilds that can get you over this phase of the game, but the way it is done on icecrown isnt "hardcore"
We had recently some LoD guys move to icecrown for fun , they cleared icc 25 8 heroics on their first raid with mostly FoS/PoS/HoR and some ToC gear.
Lordaeron needs you to commit to your characters and not just farm 10 level 80s and swap them depending on your mood.

Yeah 100% agree with this sentiment. It's a slow grind to get properly geared to even be accepted into gear, making the population of raidable players low af

[Marty666]

Why join a server advertising itself as "hardcore" with more difficult content if you're going to complain it's harder?

Even if the general concept of this suggestion is accepted, I'd expect - and vouch for - the bigger focus and changes to be increasing the difficult of Heroic in relation to the current Normal, not so much in lowering it for Normal.

I ve quit about a year ago but thinking about coming back, the main reason why we all choose this server was because the shop isnt in it and the 1X. I ve been running leveling social guild back then and what kill it , we needed specific class and spec to make it work , leaving people behind .... then people started to want more and more, it started to crack the guild and everything just fall apart. I didnt like the hardcore part at all , specially that the battleground are cross with icecrown and blackrock .....

What Lord had better was the community, the non shop and the 1X. I am pretty sure 90% of the players were on Lord for that exact reason, not the hardcore part .....

[BlackDeathh]

Lordaeron was a joke even years back even after bosses got nerfed x2 in all this years,cheese tactics got reintroduced because some one whent and report it on bugtracker,one example you can skip ozze during PP channel,DI usage on DBS,if memory helps BQL was casting x3 bloodbolt so icecrown tactic could not be used on 0% ICC,Marrow till this day dont bounce randomly in raid and just picks the farthest target not in his melee range so you can manipulate the bounces and make the bone storm irrelevant mechanic(this is kinda a bug).
devs sadly are not clear on what they want i am here since 2016 when i did ICC on lordaeron at first you could skip ozze during pp transtion channel then they switched it so you cant and now you can again xd
also fishbro asking for icc buffs is pure comedy.

[Obnoxious]

I ve quit about a year ago but thinking about coming back, the main reason why we all choose this server was because the shop isnt in it and the 1X. I ve been running leveling social guild back then and what kill it , we needed specific class and spec to make it work , leaving people behind .... then people started to want more and more, it started to crack the guild and everything just fall apart. I didnt like the hardcore part at all , specially that the battleground are cross with icecrown and blackrock .....

What Lord had better was the community, the non shop and the 1X. I am pretty sure 90% of the players were on Lord for that exact reason, not the hardcore part .....

You can go to a steakhouse because of the "ambience" all you like, but you can't complain that you're a vegan and don't want meat.

[Marty666]

It wasn't a complain, but an observation. That steakhouse is the only restaurant that is serving salad in town.

[xTheLichKingx]

I've noticed that they buffed then nerfed RS25 on Lordaeron. This means that balance changing for Lordaeron isn't out of the question.

Why not implement the suggested changes and see how players react to them after a couple weeks, and if they like them keep them permanently and if they're not enjoyed then remove them.

[xxhummusgodx]

I've noticed that they buffed then nerfed RS25 on Lordaeron. This means that balance changing for Lordaeron isn't out of the question.

Why not implement the suggested changes and see how players react to them after a couple weeks, and if they like them keep them permanently and if they're not enjoyed then remove them.

There's simply not enough community engagement with the forums for community driven changes like that to happen, even if the Warmane staff agreed with you on it :/ Think about the fact that like half the players on this realm and Warmane in general don't even speak basic English required to communicate in level 80 raid content

[xTheLichKingx]

There's simply not enough community engagement with the forums for community driven changes like that to happen, even if the Warmane staff agreed with you on it :/ Think about the fact that like half the players on this realm and Warmane in general don't even speak basic English required to communicate in level 80 raid content

RS25 adjustment's were made without community feedback afaik and people didn't even notice that the bosses were buffed. People were still saying RS25 is unbuffed even after baltharus/saviana/halion all had their hp increased

[Neric]

It is not the gamebalance that is holding players back, it is lack of experience. The chain always breaks at the weakest link and if people haven't done a certain boss yet, they are supposed to fail. The mechanics are not rocket-science, so pretty much everyone should be able to learn them. Complaining about failing the DPS-check on bosses like Festergut on the other hand shows the wrong attitude, because if you are lacking the gear to kill the boss you can fix it by farming some. You are supposed to work on your gear, your talent-tree and your rotation. You are supposed to bring consumables. That's your job, not the job of the developers.

[Zixar]

You are not entitled to a Festergut kill.

If your group does not have the DPS for Fester, you are free to move on to Rotface (soft enrage only) or Valithria (normal mode has very lax dps requirements) until your raiders have acquired the gear and hands to take on more difficult checks.

A raid that cannot kill Festergut likely does not have the DPS to beat enrage or phase 3 of Professor Putricide, and will have a tough time killing BPC as well. BQL might be doable if you have a couple ringers that can carry with an early bite. Festergut can be a good indicator of when your group actually has enough DPS to complete the raid, and that's OK.

[xxhummusgodx]

I wish I could upvote the last two additions to this thread

[xTheLichKingx]

You are not entitled to a Festergut kill.

If your group does not have the DPS for Fester, you are free to move on to Rotface (soft enrage only) or Valithria (normal mode has very lax dps requirements) until your raiders have acquired the gear and hands to take on more difficult checks.

A raid that cannot kill Festergut likely does not have the DPS to beat enrage or phase 3 of Professor Putricide, and will have a tough time killing BPC as well. BQL might be doable if you have a couple ringers that can carry with an early bite. Festergut can be a good indicator of when your group actually has enough DPS to complete the raid, and that's OK.

Festergut is a pre-req to SEDGE, the go-to gearing weapon. Without access to SEDGE or CM, pugs will do 6/12. Gate-keeping old players, new players, unskilled players, etc is what's happening. This post was to argue in favor of pugs, new player friendly guilds, and weaker players. To think that "Hardcore Raiding Realm HC Raid Boss" is a Copy/Paste of retail/Icecrown with no buffs or changes, while normal mode is buffed nearly 50%, is baffling.

I believe the stat-based gate-keeping for normal should be reduced, mechanic failure punishments MASSIVELY BUFFED, and Heroic Boss gatekeeping should be SIGNIFICANTLY buffed.

[shensigma]

okay let's do some theorycrafting pve here.

im going to make a fictional scenario where we can gather 10 exceptional-players at their 232 item level gear, with the perfect composition along with buffs and everything they can provide. and they want to clear at the very least as much as many 10-man heroic bosses as possible as well as doing min-maxing in the process.

i brought 10-man heroic as the milestone since that's the raid size where you can possibly get somewhat good gear in order to do 25 man icc later in the week and also meet the marks to do progress in icc overall.

historically speaking, when icc first came out, players where supposed to be fully gear in ToGC-25 man gear in order to withstand the raid's difficulty, which means, you had to be somewhere around 5.6-5.8k

with that being said lets do a check for every heroic bosses:

HC-Marrowgar: totally downable, it's just a matter of survivabilty which comes down to how good your healers are and how heedful you, as a player you are. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-lady: Totally downable, just pay attention to ghost, to threat, kill adds, boss is down.
totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-Gunship: Totally down, piñata boss. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-saurfang: totally downable, not quite a dps race strictly but you have to prioritize down adds make use of your dps. overall not a hard boss as long as you have respectful to mechanics. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-rotface: totally downable, as long as you can reduce raid-wide recieved damage from the raid you are totally good, plus if your tanks are really good, you can nullify and cheese big ooze damage completely. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-festergut: totally downable, probably the hardest part about the fight is how intensive the healing department can be, as well as tanks having to rotate defensive when boss is at x3 stacks of pungeant blight. although we good care, there shouldn't be any problems downing this boss with 232 gear at all. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-professor: 50/50. now this is where we can get to a brickwall progression. if we can have top-notch strats like pre-proting and cheesing oozes mechanics, as well as taunting phase 3 professor to snipe mutated plague stacks and doing everything pixel perfect execution from start to end, i can say it's really possible to down hc proffesor. otherwise, if you happen to have one player failing at their job in this fight, it's not going to be possible to down it.

HC-BPC: not possible. gear, healing, tanking and dps is really demanding in this fight in top of having clutch enrage timers, this is the one fight you can't down with 232 item level gear. sorry

HC-BQL: totally downable. shadow priest getting the first bite is the key for this fight since keeping passive healing can truly make the difference, as well provide buffs and what not. totally downeable with 232 item level gear.

HC-valithria: totally downable, as long as you have 3-4 healers, you should be able to down adds easy and fully heal the boss.

HC-Sindy: not possible. really demanding fight where gear and optimization is everything. you can't afford having more than 2 flights phases since players are in a race to time against the enrage timers

HC-lich king: Not possible, almost same situtation as sindy.

so, at the end we have possibly a 8-9/12 10-man heroic icc where you CAN down this many heroic bosses as long as you have an exceptional roster of good players with top-notch skill. to be honest, that's really mad skills for anyone who can accomplish this feat since it means you are way above than any other average lordearon players.
however, if you don't truly commit to min-max as well as fully understand your class. really, don't expect to have people carrying and handing you over loot whereas most casual players don't even deserve it.

really if you are meant to play in lordaeron, you have to take in mind that everything is hard and is not a pushover.

[xTheLichKingx]

okay let's do some theorycrafting pve here.

im going to make a fictional scenario where we can gather 10 exceptional-players at their 232 item level gear, with the perfect composition along with buffs and everything they can provide. and they want to clear at the very least as much as many 10-man heroic bosses as possible as well as doing min-maxing in the process.

i brought 10-man heroic as the milestone since that's the raid size where you can possibly get somewhat good gear in order to do 25 man icc later in the week and also meet the marks to do progress in icc overall.

historically speaking, when icc first came out, players where supposed to be fully gear in ToGC-25 man gear in order to withstand the raid's difficulty, which means, you had to be somewhere around 5.6-5.8k

with that being said lets do a check for every heroic bosses:

HC-Marrowgar: totally downable, it's just a matter of survivabilty which comes down to how good your healers are and how heedful you, as a player you are. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-lady: Totally downable, just pay attention to ghost, to threat, kill adds, boss is down.
totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-Gunship: Totally down, piñata boss. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-saurfang: totally downable, not quite a dps race strictly but you have to prioritize down adds make use of your dps. overall not a hard boss as long as you have respectful to mechanics. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-rotface: totally downable, as long as you can reduce raid-wide recieved damage from the raid you are totally good, plus if your tanks are really good, you can nullify and cheese big ooze damage completely. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-festergut: totally downable, probably the hardest part about the fight is how intensive the healing department can be, as well as tanks having to rotate defensive when boss is at x3 stacks of pungeant blight. although we good care, there shouldn't be any problems downing this boss with 232 gear at all. totally downeable at 232 gear.

HC-professor: 50/50. now this is where we can get to a brickwall progression. if we can have top-notch strats like pre-proting and cheesing oozes mechanics, as well as taunting phase 3 professor to snipe mutated plague stacks and doing everything pixel perfect execution from start to end, i can say it's really possible to down hc proffesor. otherwise, if you happen to have one player failing at their job in this fight, it's not going to be possible to down it.

HC-BPC: not possible. gear, healing, tanking and dps is really demanding in this fight in top of having clutch enrage timers, this is the one fight you can't down with 232 item level gear. sorry

HC-BQL: totally downable. shadow priest getting the first bite is the key for this fight since keeping passive healing can truly make the difference, as well provide buffs and what not. totally downeable with 232 item level gear.

HC-valithria: totally downable, as long as you have 3-4 healers, you should be able to down adds easy and fully heal the boss.

HC-Sindy: not possible. really demanding fight where gear and optimization is everything. you can't afford having more than 2 flights phases since players are in a race to time against the enrage timers

HC-lich king: Not possible, almost same situtation as sindy.

so, at the end we have possibly a 8-9/12 10-man heroic icc where you CAN down this many heroic bosses as long as you have an exceptional roster of good players with top-notch skill. to be honest, that's really mad skills for anyone who can accomplish this feat since it means you are way above than any other average lordearon players.
however, if you don't truly commit to min-max as well as fully understand your class. really, don't expect to have people carrying and handing you over loot whereas most casual players don't even deserve it.

really if you are meant to play in lordaeron, you have to take in mind that everything is hard and is not a pushover.

Make a raid team of 10 people with maximum 232 gear, and I will pay you an exhorbitant amount of gold/coins/whatever

[shensigma]

nah, i don't want to deal with casuals. specially with people complaining about pve which can't admit they are really bad at it xd. so thank you for the offer.