Confessions

[Lawl]

Edit: FUUUUUUUU off-topicers. When I started this I thought "yeah one or two paragraphs, no biggie." ._.


That paragraph doesn't make much sense considering all you just said prior to that point - and all in response to a little jab of mine? Anyway, I don't particularly take kindly to an attack on my person, but to keep religion itself out of the thread and because you brought it up, I will indulge and focus my response on me.

I come from a religious background. My mother was deeply religious and my father was religious on a near-fanatical level. I grew up listening to God-inspired morality lectures and Bible stories after every dinner of my childhood and early adolescence. These lectures usually lasted for an hour but sometimes for upward of three. I was imbued in religion and believed it all, for a time. I used to read the Bible and I would pray before every meal and before going to sleep. At that point, I was already more familiar with religion than most people my age, though not exactly in a healthy way.

I started having doubts when I was around the age of 14, but it was very difficult because of all the guilt that came with it. I wondered if I would go to hell for doubting. I thought I must have been a bad person. Leaving a religion can be extremely scary for a person who was raised in an environment where such a thing was not only inadmissible, but also evil.

Come the age of 15, I was becoming more and more certain that most of religion was untrue. However, I was extremely moderate about it. But also more comfortable with my disbelief. My father wouldn't hear of it, though - he yelled at me that if I didn't believe in God, I couldn't be a good person. Thankfully for me, reason defeated emotion.

My disbelief increased over time and reached a peak around the age of 19 or 20, when I finally stopped giving religion and other superstitions any sort of breathing room. I used to say things like "Religion isn't inherently bad, it's people who are bad," which I still hear all the time from moderate Christians or recent atheists. Now I know that it was simple bullsh*t I told myself to avoid dissonance and conflict while in a transition phase between belief and disbelief. You said this:



And delivered the line as though it would be an unreasonable thing to have a grudge with all things irrational. But I do take issue with all things irrational, and I see no problem with that. But I digress.

I'm offended that you would suggest I'm just another run-of-the-mill ignorant person who happens to have an opinion about something for no particular reason of my own. I've always been a person eager to learn. I've constantly been reading books since the age of 5. I used to always annoy adults as a pre-adolescent boy because I thought their conversations were far more interesting than those with people my age. I study philosophy and I'm even taking a Bible course right now, purely as an elective because even though my opinions on the subject of religion are firm, I'm not ignorant enough to think that I know it all. I've read books on the god debate and have watched countless debates and interviews on the subject. I've gone out of my way to have discussions with people at my university to talk about their beliefs, both Christian and Muslim.

So spare me the comments about how I'm "supposed to be the smart guy" and only have a "vague understanding" of the subject. The majority of the people on this planet don't even care about the subject enough to have bothered doing the research that I have.

Clovis.......plis.

[Orphic]

Edit: FUUUUUUUU off-topicers. When I started this I thought "yeah one or two paragraphs, no biggie." ._.


That paragraph doesn't make much sense considering all you just said prior to that point (and all in response to a little jab of mine?) Anyway, I don't particularly take kindly to an attack on my person, but to keep religion itself out of the thread and because you brought it up, I will indulge and focus my response on me.

I come from a religious background. My mother was deeply religious and my father was religious on a near-fanatical level. I grew up listening to God-inspired morality lectures and Bible stories after every dinner of my childhood and early adolescence. These lectures usually lasted for an hour but sometimes for upward of three. I was imbued in religion and believed it all, for a time. I used to read the Bible and I would pray before every meal and before going to sleep. At that point, I was already more familiar with religion than most people my age, though not exactly in a healthy way.

I started having doubts when I was around the age of 14, but it was very difficult because of all the guilt that came with it. I wondered if I would go to hell for doubting. I thought I must have been a bad person. Leaving a religion can be extremely scary for a person who was raised in an environment where such a thing was not only inadmissible, but also evil.

Come the age of 15, I was becoming more and more certain that most of religion was untrue. However, I was extremely moderate about it. But also more comfortable with my disbelief. My father wouldn't hear of it, though - he yelled at me that if I didn't believe in God, I couldn't be a good person. Thankfully for me, reason defeated emotion.

My disbelief increased over time and reached a peak around the age of 19 or 20, when I finally stopped giving religion and other superstitions any sort of breathing room. I used to say things like "Religion isn't inherently bad, it's people who are bad," which I still hear all the time from moderate Christians or recent atheists. Now I know that it was simple bullsh*t I told myself to avoid dissonance and conflict while in a transition phase between belief and disbelief. You said this:



And delivered the line as though it would be an unreasonable thing to have a grudge with all things irrational. But I do take issue with all things irrational, and I see no problem with that. But I digress.

I'm offended that you would suggest I'm just another run-of-the-mill ignorant person who happens to have an opinion about something for no particular reason of his own. I've always been a person eager to learn. I've constantly been reading books since the age of 5. I used to always annoy adults as a pre-adolescent boy because I thought their conversations were far more interesting than those with people my age. I study philosophy and I'm even taking a Bible course right now, purely as an elective because even though my opinions on the subject of religion are firm, I'm not ignorant enough to think that I know it all. I've read books on the god debate and have watched countless debates and interviews on the subject. I've gone out of my way to have discussions with people at my university to talk about their beliefs, both Christian and Muslim.

So spare me the comments about how I'm "supposed to be the smart guy" and only have a "vague understanding" of the subject. The majority of the people on this planet don't even care about the subject enough to have bothered doing the research that I have.

Only 8.

I'm disappointed.

[Mercy]

I confess that I was never allowed to participate in "adult conversations" when I was younger. That, coupled with being everyone's favorite outcast in school...

[Shiina]

My mom always says that she regrets letting me have conversations with adults as a kid, mostly because it turned me into a better arguer/more awkward person.

[Orphic]

I choose not to get into intellectual arguments with adults.

Most of the time, it ends with "I'm your elder, so I'm right."

There's no point in even trying 99% of the time.

[Mercy]

My mom always says that she regrets letting me have conversations with adults as a kid, mostly because it turned me into a better arguer/more awkward person.

I feel insecure about involving myself in others' conversations. Especially in voice (not text) conversations when others try to speak over each other - I usually just go completely silent. People think I'm not talkative because of it, or shy. Which I think I kind-of am, but, well... when you're raised on the principle that you're not welcome in any conversation that isn't directed right at you, things tend to get that way I suppose.

"I'm your elder, so I'm right."

= my father described in 8 words.

[Orphic]

Everyone welcomes you Grace ~

[Mercy]

You, perhaps. Not everyone, however.

[Orphic]

We will hunt them down and force them to accept you ~

[Link]

Edit: FUUUUUUUU off-topicers. When I started this I thought "yeah one or two paragraphs, no biggie." ._.


That paragraph doesn't make much sense considering all you just said prior to that point (and all in response to a little jab of mine?) Anyway, I don't particularly take kindly to an attack on my person, but to keep religion itself out of the thread and because you brought it up, I will indulge and focus my response on me.

I come from a religious background. My mother was deeply religious and my father was religious on a near-fanatical level. I grew up listening to God-inspired morality lectures and Bible stories after every dinner of my childhood and early adolescence. These lectures usually lasted for an hour but sometimes for upward of three. I was imbued in religion and believed it all, for a time. I used to read the Bible and I would pray before every meal and before going to sleep. At that point, I was already more familiar with religion than most people my age, though not exactly in a healthy way.

I started having doubts when I was around the age of 14, but it was very difficult because of all the guilt that came with it. I wondered if I would go to hell for doubting. I thought I must have been a bad person. Leaving a religion can be extremely scary for a person who was raised in an environment where such a thing was not only inadmissible, but also evil.

Come the age of 15, I was becoming more and more certain that most of religion was untrue. However, I was extremely moderate about it. But also more comfortable with my disbelief. My father wouldn't hear of it, though - he yelled at me that if I didn't believe in God, I couldn't be a good person. Thankfully for me, reason defeated emotion.

My disbelief increased over time and reached a peak around the age of 19 or 20, when I finally stopped giving religion and other superstitions any sort of breathing room. I used to say things like "Religion isn't inherently bad, it's people who are bad," which I still hear all the time from moderate Christians or recent atheists. Now I know that it was simple bullsh*t I told myself to avoid dissonance and conflict while in a transition phase between belief and disbelief. You said this:



And delivered the line as though it would be an unreasonable thing to have a grudge with all things irrational. But I do take issue with all things irrational, and I see no problem with that. But I digress.

I'm offended that you would suggest I'm just another run-of-the-mill ignorant person who happens to have an opinion about something for no particular reason of his own. I've always been a person eager to learn. I've constantly been reading books since the age of 5. I used to always annoy adults as a pre-adolescent boy because I thought their conversations were far more interesting than those with people my age. I study philosophy and I'm even taking a Bible course right now, purely as an elective because even though my opinions on the subject of religion are firm, I'm not ignorant enough to think that I know it all. I've read books on the god debate and have watched countless debates and interviews on the subject. I've gone out of my way to have discussions with people at my university to talk about their beliefs, both Christian and Muslim.

So spare me the comments about how I'm "supposed to be the smart guy" and only have a "vague understanding" of the subject. The majority of the people on this planet don't even care about the subject enough to have bothered doing the research that I have.

I don't argue in adult conversations or talk in them because there is no need unless it is directed towards you. I do what i'm told and only offer a better solution if i come up with one if the one at hand is ******ed and I can get better results in half the time.

[Iridia]

Because you should never underestimate those inferior to you. It should be in Pro Tip thread.

I ace everything in class, why bother learning what animals think? :^)

[Shiina]

I feel insecure about involving myself in others' conversations. Especially in voice (not text) conversations when others try to speak over each other - I usually just go completely silent. People think I'm not talkative because of it, or shy. Which I think I kind-of am, but, well... when you're raised on the principle that you're not welcome in any conversation that isn't directed right at you, things tend to get that way I suppose.

I just told myself that adults don't like being shown up by children. Once I got over the fact that they just didn't want kids knowing more than they did, I started excelling in both my learning and my speech. I think it was around age seven that I started sitting at the "adult's table" and listening to their discussions. Being an only child of a family that moved around every ~6-12 months, I not only didn't have very many friends, but I found it easier to get along with adults than I did with other children.

[Sigurd]

I ace everything in class, why bother learning what animals think? :^)

When you are too high on your pedestal you see a lot, but miss out some little "normal" things. Nations have fallen because of that. I just thought of that as a life tip. DP>Everything in that case anyway.

@religion talk

I have interesting view on it, which is that I don't care. My family never forced any religion. Mother is non-caring too, father slightly religious, he's smart man. I just can't comprehend the concept that any form deity exist in this age and education level. I have some personal views on the world and philosophy, where balance is the main concept. Don't confuse with Karma, I'm talking about Yin-Yang balance. I'm not knowledgeable of Taoism, but that symbol is like most simple and meaningful thing created.
Yet I still keep some Orthodox Traditions I've learned as a child. It makes me feel part of my nation more, it invokes childhood memories, and there is some hidden beauty in it, unrelated to the beliefs.

Also, Grace, you are probably the most lovely person I've ever met online. That's surface impression, I don't know you enough to speak about it more. Just wanted you to know(no crush lol, because it's trend here xD)

[Gabrantus]

@Clovis - I said I'm not going to argue further, but the bait is very strong. However, I won't go far, and will only makes two points, I'm not exactly going to argue, consider it more of a clarification:

1. I'm sorry I forgot to add a word to make myself more clear: I was meant to say that I do not wish to argue further. My bad.

2. As you've often told me, you come from a fanatically religious family. We all know what's the natural reaction from most children who come from such families. They tend to have more or less against religion. Certainly you may have many reasons for it, but your origins are the base for it. I may have brought this up before.

[Mercy]

I just told myself that adults don't like being shown up by children. Once I got over the fact that they just didn't want kids knowing more than they did, I started excelling in both my learning and my speech. I think it was around age seven that I started sitting at the "adult's table" and listening to their discussions. Being an only child of a family that moved around every ~6-12 months, I not only didn't have very many friends, but I found it easier to get along with adults than I did with other children.

I think that your first sentence might be the case, but it could also be annoyance at my possible ignorance as well. To believe the former and not the latter without knowing any facts to lean towards one or the other would be... uhm, arrogant? However, my pace of learning and speech have never been an issue. Well, actually, they have. They've garnered me "good" attention that I don't want. I probably explained something about that in my post that describes how and why I dislike reading.