Basically I’m trying to find out everything that’s wrong with the current state of Assassination Rogues in WotLK expansion, as bugtracker isn’t really filled with all of them. The bugs in bugtracker are kind of scattered and keep just sitting there.
So I want you guys to help me out trying to make a proper investigation as what’s actually broken, so that we can give a hint to modders to start fixing those problems.
1.) Until recently Dual Wield Specialisation didn’t work properly, but I understand that it’s fixed right now.
2.) Mutilate doesn’t proc Off-Hand poisons.
That was a thing until recently, but I believe people are noting it as fixed.
3.) Poisons deal too low damage inside and outside of ICC.
Along with that, poisons don’t benefit from the ICC buff.
So if you’re looking at pure numbers (the EP values, BiS gear, proper talents, fully beneficial raid (all buffs present), …) they should give something like (on a 300 seconds long fight):
Instant Poison DPS: 4487.88 DPS on average (deals 1735.68 damage per tick)
Deadly Poison DPS: 787.24 DPS on average (deals 472.34 stack damage)
Envenom DPS: 1852.98 DPS on average (deals 12059.99 damage per hit)
I’ve excluded Ebon Plaguebringer buff for this though.
Keep in mind that these are basically only spreadsheet numbers. However, what I want to see is what these numbers look like compared to Warmane. If they’re much lower than this, then we already have an answer.
4.) Tiny Abomination in a Jar doesn’t work properly.
Not only it does not proc as often as it should, it also doesn’t apply poisons on target, it doesn’t proc Berserking enchant nor Focused Attacks talent.
So the trinket actually has 4 bugs in it.
Can anyone confirm the number 3.), as I don’t have a geared enough Rogue to try it out myself? I don’t own a Tiny Abomination in a Jar at the moment either to test number 4.), would be nice to see some responses.
For number 3.) all you gotta do is run with a nicely geared Assassination Rogue for a full run and check the average damage and average DPS damage from your poisons and type them down here.
-
Member
Assassination Rogue bugs needing fix
-
Cadabra
For 3.)
BiS gear is not necessary for bug testing, in this case you just need to know the formulas:
Instant Poison: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Instant_Poison
Deadly Poison: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Deadly_Poison_(item)
Instant Poison IX:
Without any talents or damage increasing effects you just plug in your melee attack power (AP):
min: (300+AP*0.1)=
max (400+AP*0.1)=
For all the other effects such as ICC aura (30%), Vile Poisons (20%), Murder (4%), Hunger for Blood (5%), Sanctified Retribution (3%), Curse of Elements (13%), you can simply multiply them on at the end as 1 + effects percent as a decimal (ie ICC aura: 1+0.3 = *1.3).
Note: some of these modifiers should be additive with each other rather than multiplied (those of the same sub-type, ie.: those increasing damage from "all" sources), but this does not appear to be the case on pve warmane realms.
In a typical 25 raid you would usually have all of those so the calculation would look something like this:
min: (300+AP*0.1)*1.3*1.2*1.04*1.05*1.03*1.13 =
max (400+AP*0.1)*1.3*1.2*1.04*1.05*1.03*1.13 =
Since poisons are considered spells and scale off the spell critical chance, for assassination on a critical hit instant poison would deal 150% of damage (*1.5), multiplied by another *1.03 for the relentless meta gem (just add *1.5*1.03 at the end of each formula for critical damage).
As to the proc rate: untalented around 20% per hit, and 30% with 5/5 in Improved poisons.
Deadly Poison IX:
The damage here is per tick rather than for the entire duration, without any damage increasing effects or talents; The damage is done in 4 ticks over 12 seconds, hence the "/4" to track the damage per tick.
1 stack: (296+AP*0.12)/4=
5 stack: (296+AP*0.12)/4*5=
Deadly Poisons scales with all the same damage increasing effects as Instant Poison:
1 stack: (296+AP*0.12)/4*1.3*1.2*1.04*1.05*1.03*1.13 =
5 stack: (296+AP*0.12)/4*1.3*1.2*1.04*1.05*1.03*1.13*5=
For proc rate: untalented around 30% per hit, and 50% with 5/5 in Improved poisons.
I'll leave the thorough testing to you, but with some napkin math on a rogue with all of the above mentioned buffs except Sanctified Retribution I see no problems with the damage, ICC included.
Edit: will update for envenom soon™.Edited: July 25, 2015
-
Member
About Tiny Abomination in a Jar it does apply poison, but with half frequency that should.
-
Member
I'm still currently looking this up and still came out with nothing
Yet, it's all so obvious that assassination rogues are hitting like a baby, despite them being top dps in retail
Anyone that know where the problem lies, please do enlighten us
-
Cadabra
At the end of the expansion assassination rogues were not top dps, that title was left to warriors and mages, although I agree the spec seems to be noticeably behind combat which it should be nearly identical with in terms of single-target dps.
Having done a raid on my combat with an assassination rogue in the same raid I've noticed that the number of my IP procs nearly matched his, despite me using Rupture and Evisc as finishers, and both of us having roughly the same amount of hit. The problem may possibly reside in envenom not providing the correct increase to IP proc rate, but I have not done any extensive testing yet.
-
Member
If you provide some data from our servers and some data from retail 3.3.5 or spreadsheet numbers that can be considered accurate (for example RAWR or the Elitist Jerks thread on ICC rogue specs), we will be able to look into these issues. However it is quite a big feat so for it to be done we'll need to see concrete proof that an issue exists. This is especially true for crit calculation/hit rolls.
-
Member
How about you guys do this instead? Why every other class works but rogues poisons are too complicated for you to fix ?
-
Member
Top DPS parses from retail aren't as applicable on Warmane, and it's not just because of Warmane bugs. This is a fact that flies under the radar a lot, but there were quite a number of bugs on retail which surprisingly don't exist on lots of private servers, that significantly impacted the DPS people did there. Fury Warriors, for instance, had a major gamebreaking bug where by keeping Heroic Strike or Cleave queued, they had a guaranteed off-hand hit chance so long as they were appropriately hit capped for their yellow hits. According to Landsoul's spreadsheet, this off-hand miss bug by itself adds somewhere around 5-6% more DPS. Mages were free to abuse t9 2p to basically have 3 set bonuses all the time, while everyone else had 2, and gained 2-2.5% more crit in the process. Ignite and Deep Wounds for both those specs would also do what's called "munching" where the client's flawed interaction with the server made it so you'd sometimes get very different damage from those abilities from what a spreadsheet might predict. There was both positive and negative munching, so it's hard to say what the overall impact on their DPS this had, but the point is that munching basically doesn't exist at all on Trinity Core servers, and that that's also responsible for some of the damage difference.
What I'm getting at is that top 50 DPS logs and things of that nature from retail aren't necessarily the best points of references for how things ought to be on Warmane, and that spreadsheets in the vein of tools like http://simulationcraft.org/ would be better suited to that job. I've looked a lot for some kind of chart that lists out accurately simmed 3.3.5a DPS rankings, but I've yet to come across anything like that for this patch.
-
Banned
Wait, I thought Mages could abuse T9 2p here too? And isn't one of the simulationcrafts in this directory good for WotLK?
And Warmane, pls make post voting possible, so we can rate up posts like the one above.Edited: October 28, 2015
-
Member
They used to be able to do that with 2p t9, but that got fixed shortly after the merge with AT.
I'm not sure if it'd be one of the simcraft files in that directory, since all the dates seem to be well after WotLK.
-
Member
I have uploaded EJ rogue sheets again in case someone wanted to have a look into it. (I am busy atm)
http://www.filedropper.com/ejroguesheets
-
Member
I'll do a bunch of dummy tests (and an ICC run, if needed?) over the next few days and post my results.
I would very much appreciate it if someone else does the math, though, because I simply don't math well.
This is the character I'll use for testing, for reference sake: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...thwing/summaryEdited: November 4, 2015
-
Member
Right:
I haven't had a run in ICC yet, simply haven't had time for that, but this is what I have so far:
10 Minutes just melee:
Instant poison:
Isn't Instant Poison supposed to use your melee crit chance? Not sure if that's the case.
Deadly poison:
ToC 10 pug (with relatively high Envenom uptime - that was pretty much the main thing I was going for).
I will add an ICC run when I get a decent one.
Take note that my gear has changed since I did this (well, got Sanctified gauntlets...), so there will be a slight increase on anything I do further on.Edited: November 13, 2015
-
Member
And this is from a ICC pug (Gunship to Rotface). I had full buffs, including flask here, but it definitely seems like almost all abilities benefitted from the ICC buff
Instant Poison:
Envenom:
Deadly Poison:
Also, Festergut numbers in case the trash stuff would skew the results:
Instant poison:
Deadly Poison:
Hope someone can make some sort of sense out of this... I don't math well :P
-
Member
Was anyone able to make anything of this? Do you need more data?
Quote
