LoD Guilds Exploits

[dike]

We don't need 1k GMs OR players with GM powers. What we need are GMs and administration that don't ignore popular and blatant cheating.

id rather give those rights to trustfull players letting gms doing something more important like posting in Introduce yourself section (pls no ban =D)

[Kasumii]

id rather give those rights to trustfull players letting gms doing something more important like posting in Introduce yourself section (pls no ban =D)

Indirectly implying that GM staff should be familiar and experienced on the server as a prime qualification for moderating the realm?

[Disktrasa]

Still find it wierd that no devs or forums moderators have expressed themself about this matter in this thread still.
Hopefully it got such a reaction that they are talking it over themselfes.

And dont bash Gm's or Devs.
You'l just get yourself into trouble for a stupid comment.

[Obnoxious]

Still find it wierd that no devs or forums moderators have expressed themself about this matter in this thread still.
Hopefully it got such a reaction that they are talking it over themselfes.

And dont bash Gm's or Devs.
You'l just get yourself into trouble for a stupid comment.

Weird for what reason?

Developers create and fix content. They have nothing to do with any kind of rules besides any they might have internally as a team.
Moderators take care of the Forums. I haven't seen or heard about any "Forum exploits" that could require our input.

[Drakantas]

Weird for what reason?

Developers create and fix content. They have nothing to do with any kind of rules besides any they might have internally as a team.
Moderators take care of the Forums. I haven't seen or heard about any "Forum exploits" that could require our input.

As you've said, developers have *almost* nothing to do with this discussion, so I'd rather keep them aside.
But what about Game masters? They have to read reports from players here in the forums. Wouldn't it be possible for them to make public their stance, considering you run under different departments, and the forums is probably the main communication place for us (players) and you (staff members).

[magaginho]

As you've said, developers have *almost* nothing to do with this discussion, so I'd rather keep them aside.
But what about Game masters? They have to read reports from players here in the forums. Wouldn't it be possible for them to make public their stance, considering you run under different departments, and the forums is probably the main communication place for us (players) and you (staff members).

I won't precisely talk about the GM's, to be honest. I would say Community Managers instead of GM's. I'm not sure about what's the funcion of the Community Managers but I assume that they might handle this kind of issues. At least that's the idea that I get through their rank.

[Disktrasa]

Weird for what reason?

Developers create and fix content. They have nothing to do with any kind of rules besides any they might have internally as a team.
Moderators take care of the Forums. I haven't seen or heard about any "Forum exploits" that could require our input.

For the reason that the guy who made this post wanted to get in contact about you guys, about this matter.
Devs, because they created and fixed the content that people are complaining about thats why I included them when i said dont bash them, They are the once that actually made this server you love and play on in the first place.

Personally I think that "exploiting" Lich king is something people are forced to do, if you look at for example, Valkyres are 2 times faster then retail, cannot be slowed wich they can be in retail, so you kinda have to stun them, but that an exploit, but how are you able to clear LoD if, lets say sht hits the fan and you get 9 people grabbed, Including healers, making 2nd transition impossible (some valks even teleport people out from platform instantly)
Vile spirits can be kited in retail, they are 2-3 times faster then you are here, and you have to wait until they are down close to ground before you can soak them, at that moment, its when they get speeded up and quite impossible to deal with unless you have a druid to typhoon them to the ground so you can soak them instantly, and get them slowed so you can reach them and actually be able to soak them in the first place.

To make this clear, I dont say that using exploits in general is ok.
Our whole guild is very strict about not using exploits, and I think everyone should be strict about it.

But there things helps out alot and you still have to deal with the game mechanics, but using the "exploits" is making it as easy (maybe a little easyer) then retail, but atleast doable.
Other exploits like JoJ is NOT ok when you can get around the problem with taunt swapping, hunters, paladins, dk's etc, alot of classes can help out, and tbh you can clear lich king on phase 3 without tanks if people are coordinated good enough.

But using some abilities to actually be able to clear it without having to try so many times untill you get lucky is kinda required in most peoples eyes, No one wants to try for hours by just doin it legit and I bet alot of people will just Gquit because they find it stupid and they just all wants LoD, In this matter it would even be hard to get a full guild run to clear it, its the same thing when you look at PP and HoP.
You can be really hardcore and try it legit like "Magaghino" and "Blazinghellion" but in most peoples eyes, thats too much to ask when dealing with bugged content in general.

Srry for wall of text, trying to get you guys to se everyonce point of view.

[taralej]

The wall of text has its point. As you said, both Vile Spirits and Valkyrs aren't working correctly, so guilds can't just "deal" with them without having extra pressure on their shoulders. Vile Spirits are supposed to be slow enough for a tank to grab them and soak them - this cannot happen on Warmane; Valkyrs should be subject to slows so that the raid has reasonable time to deal with them - this can't happen either. Healers simply have to overheal the spirits wherever they explode, and the only other option for Valkyrs is hard CC... which is a bug.

If you're using a bug to get around an otherwise working fight, then that's unethical exploiting, but if you're using a bug because otherwise the encounter is not doable by normal means, then that is somewhat justified. You may call it double standards, and you may be right... but what other options do players have then, except wiping? I'm not changing sides here, defending exploiters, I'm just saying that dealing normally with some of the fights is a very hard option.

[Lucatiel]

I'm already one of those players that state that the LK fight itself is buggy enough (ex: Nectrotic Plague killing adds on the first transition phase) so the fight is already easy.

HLK is harder than it was on retail here??

The "easy" part of the fight is running in a circle for 10 minutes and looting oathbinder.


Most LOD comps have 20 people who can't play their 7k gs alts correctly and make the raid hard enough; and thus nobody is ever going to use ridiculous workaround to make the fight feel "blizzlike". I guarantee this magaghino guy is just SJWing and doesn't actually raid for 6 hours a night, either.

[magaginho]

For the reason that the guy who made this post wanted to get in contact about you guys, about this matter.
Devs, because they created and fixed the content that people are complaining about thats why I included them when i said dont bash them, They are the once that actually made this server you love and play on in the first place.

Personally I think that "exploiting" Lich king is something people are forced to do, if you look at for example, Valkyres are 2 times faster then retail, cannot be slowed wich they can be in retail, so you kinda have to stun them, but that an exploit, but how are you able to clear LoD if, lets say sht hits the fan and you get 9 people grabbed, Including healers, making 2nd transition impossible (some valks even teleport people out from platform instantly)
Vile spirits can be kited in retail, they are 2-3 times faster then you are here, and you have to wait until they are down close to ground before you can soak them, at that moment, its when they get speeded up and quite impossible to deal with unless you have a druid to typhoon them to the ground so you can soak them instantly, and get them slowed so you can reach them and actually be able to soak them in the first place.

To make this clear, I dont say that using exploits in general is ok.
Our whole guild is very strict about not using exploits, and I think everyone should be strict about it.

But there things helps out alot and you still have to deal with the game mechanics, but using the "exploits" is making it as easy (maybe a little easyer) then retail, but atleast doable.
Other exploits like JoJ is NOT ok when you can get around the problem with taunt swapping, hunters, paladins, dk's etc, alot of classes can help out, and tbh you can clear lich king on phase 3 without tanks if people are coordinated good enough.

But using some abilities to actually be able to clear it without having to try so many times untill you get lucky is kinda required in most peoples eyes, No one wants to try for hours by just doin it legit and I bet alot of people will just Gquit because they find it stupid and they just all wants LoD, In this matter it would even be hard to get a full guild run to clear it, its the same thing when you look at PP and HoP.
You can be really hardcore and try it legit like "Magaghino" and "Blazinghellion" but in most peoples eyes, thats too much to ask when dealing with bugged content in general.

Srry for wall of text, trying to get you guys to se everyonce point of view.

I can proudly say that yesterday one of my friends gave me the idea of grouping up some of our friends and do an ICC 10 Normal forcing every single mechanic to be really near or equal to Retail tactics - We literally forced every single mechanic to be as close as possible to retail tactics. I can tell you that, for example, we had a hunter kiting the orange ooze in PP like he was supposed though. Even though the Abom can't consume enough slime pools to slow the ooze (as it should) we found a way around it and the hunter (coincidence - The author of this thread) kited it jumping between aspects, disengages and rocket boots. We had the group spread to avoid maleables, stacking only for green with the purpose of sharing the damage, etc. I actually recorded those bosses where most of the people say that they're "forced" to exploit.

As most of you are aware, Lich King in 10 normal is quite bugged. As an example, let's take a look at Valks. They can't be slowed at all. I won't talk about the stun because that's not how it should be done since it's not a thing in Retail. With this said, since they can't be slowed at all, we bursted the Valkyr down as soon as she came down. You might need some high DPS to do this - But the legit tactic is being implemented. As for necrotic goes, in phase 1, we had our DPS'ers killing adds as they should and with Necrotic not killing the adds. Vile Spirits, as you stated, move fast but they're still pretty easy to soak. We were able to soak all of them without them hitting any of the raid members beside sthe soakers. To be honest with you: I have way MORE FUN when we do raids like this than going into pugs and join a stacked group in PP. I feel like I'm brain dead when I do that. Next step should be licking windows, to be honest. The tactic for PP is only a pain when you're doing it in HC and we will do it legit (without the plague jumping to the Abom).

The only fight we did ignore tactics was on Deathbringer Saurfang, after a huge debate between the group - Yes we could had people kitting but there's absolute no point since the Blood Beasts don't do a single thing to you. They tickle you actually.

As I said in the beggining of the thread I'm actually proud of being able to do this with Triumph that is NOT a hardcore raiding guild but I'm pretty sure that is one of the few guilds that applies legit tactics to every single raid.

It's not really hardcore - It's knowing the mechanics and fights. I guess we can take the "hardcore" word as compliment and I thank you for that.

Now going back to the main topic of this thread: If it's shown that you can do things without exploits, even with them being a little bit bugged, why are this people that force even more bugs going free without any kind of punishment? Like someone posted some pages ago, this just comes to show, that retail players will actually be treated like scum since they don't know the exploits that this so called top guilds use. If I was actually a hardcore raider in one of this guilds I would have SHAME of even showing my face in Dalaran with those achievements that this people proudly state that they farm.

The only thing that I find amusing is how the silence from the people that could actually give the community so many answers is quite deafening. I just hope it stops being that way soon. For the good sake of this community.

EDIT:

HLK is harder than it was on retail here??

The "easy" part of the fight is running in a circle for 10 minutes and looting oathbinder.

I don't really think you got the point, did ya? The thing that I stated was that the fight here was simplified with the "ignore adds" on the first transition. When you have such a huge boost, such as Necrotic, to clear those adds and your DPS'ers can sit in the platform reading a newspaper - That tells you many things. Heroic Lich King is harder here? When you can make Valkyrs miss on purpose and when you can stun them when you shouldn't be able to? The only point where I can state that the fight is actually a little bit more difficult is with the Vile Spirits movement speed and with the major haste that Defile spreads (double ticking) on 25 Normal (didn't notice the quick spread in HC's, to be honest).

Most LOD comps have 20 people who can't play their 7k gs alts correctly and make the raid hard enough; and thus nobody is ever going to use ridiculous workaround to make the fight feel "blizzlike". I guarantee this magaghino guy is just SJWing and doesn't actually raid for 6 hours a night, either

So now we're going to point finger individually apparently huh? No, I don't need to raid six hours a night. I play with competent people that know their game. They know their classes and most important thing: They really know what they're doing. Going in the opposite direction of your thoughts, some people actually know what they're doing and they don't have a gear carrying their sweet ***. They also don't need to be exploiting mechanics to achieve those titles that many desire and got through those same exploits. I would love to start pointing fingers and measuring dicks but this is not the right thread for that. I'll be more than glad to show you some things in-game. Maybe I'll make you gain a little bit more culture and make you more wise about how to do things quickly and without any kind of broken mechanics. My SJWing, don't worry, is indeed an action that for me is gone for a long time. Spending time SJWing because of ignorants is long gone. The only thing that I actually expect is justice.
Now, if you don't mind, since you seem like a person that doesn't even deserve my attention, thanks to that sad post, don't make this thread more toxic and leave your pathetic individual point fingering out of this.

[Lucatiel]

I

I don't really think you got the point, did ya? The thing that I stated was that the fight here was simplified with the "ignore adds" on the first transition. When you have such a huge boost as Necrotic to clear those adds and your DPS'ers can sit in the platform reading a newspaper - That tells you many things. Heroic Lich King is harder here? When you can make Valkyrs miss on purpose and when you can stun them when you shouldn't be able to? The only point where I can state that the fight is actually a little bit more difficult is with the Vile Spirits movement speed and with the major haste that Defile spreads (double ticking) on 25 Normal (didn't notice the quick spread in HC's, to be honest).

If you really care how it compares to retail, ask funky. LK used to be completely unkillable here.

Your basis is that warmane p1 and retail p1 are the same thing, except terrible 6k dps players can compensate with necrotic? Not worth a discussion considering I get infractions just for posting on the forums.


Nobody is hop bugging except the guild full of 6-9k dps who got a shadowmourne. *cough* I don't know what all this talk of exploiting is suddenly about.. I haven't heard anything.

[magaginho]

If you really care how it compares to retail, ask funky. LK used to be completely unkillable here.

Your basis is that warmane p1 and retail p1 are the same thing, except terrible 6k dps players can compensate with necrotic? Not worth a discussion considering I get infractions just for posting on the forums.


Nobody is hop bugging except the guild full of 6-9k dps who got a shadowmourne. *cough* I don't know what all this talk of exploiting is suddenly about.. I haven't heard anything.

Funky is also the person that streamed a certain guild LoD kill with a HoJ exploit. I'm sorry, but I do NOT spend time talking with exploiters and with people that try to lie like that. I don't like liars and I never dealt with liars. I just avoid them. Sad reality when you need to lie with every single teeth that you have to look like a someone in this game. That shows quite a lot about your personality but I'm not here to make personal judgements. So I won't elaborate that even more.

Also; If you haven't heard of anything you can search for a certain video on youtube. I'm pretty sure some people will be extremely happy in sending you that video. I can also upload some more of them, if you wish, since I have several of them on my personal hard drive. Why you ask? Because I LOVE to have a laugh when someone tries to deny their actions. It's beautiful to look in the face of a liar when you know everything that he is saying is nothing more than bullcrap.

[Obnoxious]

For the reason that the guy who made this post wanted to get in contact about you guys, about this matter.
Devs, because they created and fixed the content that people are complaining about thats why I included them when i said dont bash them, They are the once that actually made this server you love and play on in the first place.

The reasons this thread was made have nothing to do with Developers or Forum Moderators, though. Neither group deals with anything related to in-game rules and punishments when those rules are broken, nor should either be expected to make statements on behalf of the ones who do when we don't have any deep insight about when and how punishment is applied.

[taralej]

The reasons this thread was made have nothing to do with Developers or Forum Moderators, though. Neither group deals with anything related to in-game rules and punishments when those rules are broken, nor should either be expected to make statements on behalf of the ones who do when we don't have any deep insight about when and how punishment is applied.

Then please have the GM team give us an answer.

[Disktrasa]

It's quite impressive and disturbing how three different guilds did one, or several, Light of Dawn achievements with exploits.
None of them got punished. The thing that frustrates me even more is the fact that evidences does exist and nothing happens to them.
:All I want to ask to the GM's, Head GM's, Warmane Staff - Please, for the love of God - I'm not here to tell you how to do your job. But please - Be fair to your community. I'll be here waiting for any kind of feedback

^^ First post made. And by the rate this thread is goin, thats why I thought it was wierd. No offence, but alot of mods comment alot in threads all the time and are quite active on forums, just not in this one, and it's quite a populair one due to the point it makes. But thanks for clearing that up, Only GM's can provide awnsers about this matter.

we bursted the Valkyr down as soon as she came down. You might need some high DPS to do this - But the legit tactic is being implemented.

Vile Spirits, as you stated, move fast but they're still pretty easy to soak. We were able to soak all of them without them hitting any of the raid members beside sthe soakers.

These things would work fine as you mention... in 10man Normal.
25 heroic though, thats another page, you have more then twise the viles, twise the valks, and sure you have more then twise the members but you can easely spot whos grabbed in a 10man, where only 2 valks exist. But in 25man you have so much people spreaded all over for defile at the same time as valks come down, due to this ALOT of members are on the compleately other side and cant dps the valks (because of the bug on how fast defile grows they have to spread insanely much aswell), you also have 4 valks you need to look at and lets say, 3 people got grabbed out of 4 valks, you have, lets say 4 dps on each, not nearly enough so all 3 people get thrown off.

I would love to raid like you guys too, but for LK 25 heroic, thats just impossible, you might be able to do the soaking with more soaking classes and have them placed right, but that would also mean sacrifising a better raid comp, and a bigger risk of letting LK enrage after frostmourne if someone dies from viles in phase 3 (wich is also a bug), but Valks would still be way to hard.