What's wrong with the raids ?

[kidsgetrekt]

kek you mad because you can't clear naxx in Greens and Blues like back on Retail ? FeelsBadMan
the content would be even more boring then it is atm for Guilds who have it on farm...

[bilbao2115]

hardcore
noun
noun: hardcore
the most active, committed, or doctrinaire members of a group or movement

If you don't like this, feel free to go to Ragnaros or Deathwing.

Who said Deathwing and Ragnaros are not hardcore.Try to get inside any Vanilla or Burning Crusade Raid (AQ 40,MC,BT,SWP , ect..) and you shall see how buffed bosses are.

[bloodshedsword]

its really funny when people just reply "because its hardcore"

come one, get a calculator in your hands and start calculations !! Naxx 10 is reallly overbuffed !!! 10 man raids are meant to be gearing raids for preparation of 25 man setup !!

But here present scenario is like, raid 25 with a special setup or go home

[Greedman456]

It was stated long ago there were be buffs to compensate the patch 335 buffs. 10man versions naxx, eoe, os are not fine tuned imo. Altho 25man versions are just FINE. It was challenge doing 25 while trying to get some gear. Changes were been made during this naxx content period. Examples: On release the speed of the 'fire walls' @ heigan were much much quicker, the fire wall gap on sarth were much tighter, Patchwerk or Maexxna damage were higher. I think in beginning there were an extra challenge to difficult realm firsts in the 1st/2nd week but 10man were never tuned correctly. Basically it was not worth of the time doing 10mans if you could gather 25man and get better gear and raid wise would be a less painful.

Also at beggining beacon of light healed twice on the target of the beacon and other exploits were around that top guilds used to go over this content...
And dont tell me top guiilds didnt have hpalas in their group... Now beacon gets fixed and its like naxx is two times harder with 3600-3700 gear

still doable with that gear but requires good raid composition. Anyway the point is valid that 10 mans should be easier than 25 mans
Or the gear from ten man should be greater lol!...

[bloodshedsword]

Anyway the point is valid that 10 mans should be easier than 25 mans
Or the gear from ten man should be greater lol!...

This is the base scenario what Devs need to take care of !
There are people as well who are not social enough for 25 man too :p

[Obnoxious]

The thing is, this servers endgame is not blizzlike, even though they told us it would be blizzlike. They changed the hp and dmg on bosses than it originaly was on retail, they script the raids their own way. Thats why this server is not a blizzlike server. Once warmane know that there is 10m and 25m instead of buffing 10m to 25m is a day we might never see.

We stopped using "Blizz-like," because people - like you - who seem unable to grasp what "-like" means (or who simply pretend they don't when it will supposedly give weight to their complaining, in their own eyes) kept wielding that like some weapon we had a weakness to. Call our servers - especially Lordaeron - however you like. My personal suggestion is "Kaer-like."

hardcore is one, and modifying a raid in a way that wasnt designed, that's another thing. forcing guilds to go 25 men raiding if they want some gear, that's a bad ideea. Anyway, the direction this server goes is completely incompatible with "blizzlike", therefore we will stop playing here for a period, at least till something is done and the raids will feel more... "blizzlike".

This was a design choice made by us. We asked opinions from players long ago and used their feedback. The server is a customized experience. If you don't agree with certain things, that's fine, we have other servers you can play in. All it means is that the Lordaeron experience isn't for you, just like it isn't for people who can't live without RDF, for example.

[Firnblut]

Will you take a look at the relativ difficulty of 10 and 25 man raids in future? All that custom content is fine, raids being harder is fine, but 10mans being more challenging than 25mans and still giving worse loot doesnt feel right.

[tillbakaiskiten]

Alot of people seem to misunderstand the problem. The problem is 10-man raids are more difficult and requires better gear than the 25-man equivalents. This is very strange since 25-man raids give better rewards, making 10-man raids completely meaningless on this server.

[B0DD4]

The point is: Naxx 25 shouldnt be easier than Naxx10. Either nerf Naxx10 or buff Naxx25 (id prefer the second option).
Greater challenge -> better rewards.

I agree. 25 man should definitely be harder than 10 man raids.

[Obnoxious]

Will you take a look at the relativ difficulty of 10 and 25 man raids in future? All that custom content is fine, raids being harder is fine, but 10mans being more challenging than 25mans and still giving worse loot doesnt feel right.

That's not for me to say, but I personally wouldn't count on it. The raids aren't impossible, just much more challenging, and 10-men being overall more difficult than 25-men isn't anything new. Mistakes, weaker equipment, lack of knowledge of the encounter are all things that weight much more with a smaller group, where you don't have more than twice the people to cover for those things. You could say this or that case was easier for 10-man, but again, this was tweaked to be challenging and much less forgiving of mistakes or weaknesses. If you're in it for the loot and not the challenge, then just skip this or go for the 25-men only.

[xZEPOx]

If you're in it for the loot and not the challenge, then just skip this or go for the 25-men only.

For the x1 server sake, I just hope for the ppl that are really responsible for the raid tunning don't share the same opinion of this forum moderator

[Obnoxious]

For the x1 server sake, I just hope for the ppl that are really responsible for the raid tunning don't share the same opinion of this forum moderator

Your complain is the raid version of "GIVE RDF NAO!"
Have you seen RDF around? Do you see the server direly empty because of our choice of design features?
Or even better: have you seen the raids be made easier because of complains? I'll give you a hint... this thread isn't the first wanting it to be made easier, with all the usual share of "Blizz-likes" being thrown about. If some new tuning is made, expect it to be because it was scheduled so and contingent to the release of some further content, not because players want it changed.

[pinecleandog]

I've kind of gone along with most of design decisions made on this server, but I truly believe these raid boss buffs need reconsidering. And here's why:

Firstly, what's already been said; 25 man raids should not be easier than 10 man raids. This is kind of true and not true. Yes, 10 man is more difficult in a sense that mistakes are less forgiving. However, this is amplified greatly by the boss buffs. Throughout the course of WoW 10 mans have always been the entry level raid. You argue that if you're after gear, you should skip these. But you have to understand that 25 man raids are not for everyone. I know people who are unable to do 25 man raids because their computer can't handle it. But I personally prefer to do 10 mans because it's more fun to progress through content with a close group of players. Besides, 25 mans are hell to organise. That's 15 more people you have to manage! 15 more people that could just not show up or disconnect during a boss fight.

We stopped using "Blizz-like,"

Rightfully so. "Like" implies that you are trying to emulate the blizzard experience, which you're not. These buffed bosses make me aware that I'm not playing the same experience I had, which I enjoyed, whilst playing the original blizzard game. If I were to describe this server I would not call it "blizz-like" either, which was my main attraction to join in the first place. All these "design choices" you make certainly void any rights to call it blizz like, because you've disregarded what experienced designers have spent years learning from and improving, and replaced it with half baked idea where the ramifications are evidently making people unhappy.

The crux of all these issues is about who you're actually listening to. The problem is you're listening to the "hard core" players. These are the extroverts of the player base, the ones that actually come to the forum and make their opinions heard. However, this particular audience is actually very small. This can be supported by the fact that just playing on the server, I have not met a single person that agrees with this design decision, and most of these people never actively post on the forums.

The "hard core" justification is silly, and honestly, look what happened to Wildstar. This game was made for the loud hard core mmo players, and ended up doing very bad because they picked the wrong target audience to listen to. I enjoyed the game up to the horribly difficult dungeons, much like I've enjoyed this server so far. But having a reasonably geared group get absolutely no where on a raid is no fun at all. Difficulty can be accomplished without dictating the player's experience that's for sure.

I completely understand that is it not a server for me, or any other player on this server. But you have to understand that the server is only going to be able to sustain itself if you keep the players happy. This is what play testing is for, you've tried the hard core approach but it's clearly not going down well with the majority of the community.

[Obnoxious]

But you have to understand that 25 man raids are not for everyone.

Replace "25 man raids are" with "Lordaeron is" and you will have our stance since before this server was released.

All you're giving are opinions, and they happen to not match what we want for Lordaeron by design. We're not "listening to hardcore players." We're listening and sticking to what we created Lordaeron to offer.

PS: "-like" implies "alike."

"a·like
adjective
adjective: alike
1. (of two or more subjects) similar to each other.
"the brothers were very much alike""

Similar. Not identical. Not a perfect clone.

[pinecleandog]

Blizz-Like has kind of defined itself as "emulation of blizzard" over the years.

Yes, these are my opinions. It's hard for me to be objective when talking as a gamer who has played WoW for many years and who feels strongly about the subject.

You keep saying Lordaeron is not for everyone. If everyone that was unhappy with the direction things are going left today, you would not have a community that could not sustain normal game play. The numbers are diminishing at a steady rate. You could argue that whatever want is causing that. But you cannot deny that the choices made are not having an effect on the decline in population.

Being stubborn about it is not helpful either. If every game developer made the game they envisioned it at the beginning, without taking in constructive criticism, changed design based on feedback or adjusted their design based of what they have learnt from testing. I can guarantee you that most of the games today would be utter garbage. You're just lucky you've got a well made game to piggy back on.

I sincerely hope the rest of the staff don't have the same attitude towards this as you do.