WotLK Fury warr BiS gear and rotation question.

[Jakkre]

Both rend bleed and sunder armor debuff last as long as two round of a common warrior fury rotation so it's quite easy to refresh them in time.

U are doing something wrong when u keep the rend debuff constantly on ur target up.
Rend is not a dot like living bomb that u keep constantly on ur target, its a filler ability that u only use when nothing else is available.
When u play ur fury warr correct u have tons of slam procs and u have only a few free GCDs which u should use for sunder armor and not for rend.

When you start dpsing a boss, if you don't get lucky with bloodsurge procs, you may start by using that free CD Gnymo was talking about to put rend.

U should always start with sunder armor before u even think about rend.
A raid wide buff obviously increases the raid dps much more than rend.

[Panofsky]

U are doing something wrong when u keep the rend debuff constantly on ur target up.
Rend is not a dot like living bomb that u keep constantly on ur target, its a filler ability that u only use when nothing else is available.
When u play ur fury warr correct u have tons of slam procs and u have only a few free GCDs which u should use for sunder armor and not for rend.

Even with a bis geared fury warrior you will still find some free global cooldown here and there to put rend on the boss. Didn't I mention that you should it if you don't get lucky with bloodsurge procs? Yes, I did. I obviously know that rend is not a priority on our rotation, but it's still a good filler. Still I find quite absurd to guild kick a warrior just because he started to put rend instead of stacking sunder armor immediatly. Think about your duties before judging and pointing fingers. Sometimes I forget that is not a game people play to have fun, but just to rise their e-peenus.

[Beanlord]

Drakantas is trying to make a point about a principle. Warriors most definitely should prioratise SA over rend until SA is stacked to 5 and you're sure it won't fall off until your next free GCD. It's a very nice dps gain for every hunter and all other melee dpsers in your raid. If you're doing it the other way round, the raid will almost certainly loose dps and you should either be warned or removed.

[Panofsky]

If you are having trouble on progressing trough a raid just because your warrior didn't start to stack sunder armor immediatly than I've got bad news for your guild.

[Beanlord]

That's not what this is about.

[Panofsky]

That's not what this is about.

By "it" do you mean the thread? I was just answering to the ragemode guy who suggested to gkick someone for something which is not so crucial imo. "OMG, I saw a warrior putting rend on bosses before even starting to stack sunder armor, let's remove him from the game before he can even try to ruin other players' experience as well!"

[Beanlord]

By "it" do you mean the thread? I was just answering to the ragemode guy who suggested to gkick someone for something which is not so crucial imo. "OMG, I saw a warrior putting rend on bosses before even starting to stack sunder armor, let's remove him from the game before he can even try to ruin other players' experience as well!"

By it I meant what Drakantas was trying to say. A warrior that does this really should be warned and if he continues to do it, removed from the raid/guild. There's a reason why classes are played in a particular way. In truth nobody's stopping you from doing free rends when you feel like it, however, you have a priority towards your raid group first. Maybe it's not as crucial for you, but for people who like to do as well as possible it is.

[Panofsky]

By it I meant what Drakantas was trying to say. A warrior that does this really should be warned and if he continues to do it, removed from the raid/guild. There's a reason why classes are played in a particular way. In truth nobody's stopping you from doing free rends when you feel like it, however, you have a priority towards your raid group first. Maybe it's not as crucial for you, but for people who like to do as well as possible it is.

Let me think about this reply as a more "moderated version" of Drakantas post. Still I find the point quite laughable.

[Jakkre]

I was just answering to the ragemode guy who suggested to gkick someone for something which is not so crucial imo.

And he is raging for a good reason because in most raids warrior dont use sunder armor at all and the armor debuff is never on the boss.

[Gnimo]

Ur job as a fury warrior is to provide Sunder Armors, Demo shout and Commanding shout at all times, especialy if there is no PROT warrior.
U forget one thing, once u leave Berserk stance u lose 1k+ atk power which is arround 200-300 melee dmg. That will effect everything u do for that couple of sec while u are in Battle Stance. One Rend did arround 6.5k dmg total on a dummy after i did it with taunka + sts atk power proc, only 5k dmg without any proc (I use itemisation that provides me with 7k passive atk power without any buff, imagine how bad the dmg would be if u have less atk power than i do). What if u swith back to Berserk Stance and u miss ur offhand hit, that Rend loses all its value and ****s u over more than anything. How i see it, using rend in ur rotation requires perfect RNG and timeing to keep it up without losing DPS instead of gaining, and the DPS gain is basicly irelevant. So, simply dont use it. If u show me a recount in which ur rend actualy did increase ur total dps, than i will reconsider it. So far i just dont see it working at all...
The problem is that ppl dont know how armor penetration and armor reduction work, everyone think that once u reach 100% arp sunders become useless so they dont use it. I was in a raid with 2 warriors, me beeing the 3rd, and i was the ONLY one doing sunders. I asked for 1 fkin sunder on the pull so we reach 5/5 faster and i didnt even get that... If u are a fury warrior, u have 1 free GCD that wont effect ur DPS AT ALL, right after 2nd BT. If u dont have instant slam proc, use that ****ing Sunder Armor. Stop beeing jews. Even if u cant get it to 5/5 and it ends up beeing 1/5 for 30sec, its still BETTER than doin NOTHING at all. The more phisical DPS u have in raid, the more sunder armor will be valuable.

[Panofsky]

Ur job as a fury warrior is to provide Sunder Armors, Demo shout and Commanding shout at all times, especialy if there is no PROT warrior.
U forget one thing, once u leave Berserk stance u lose 1k+ atk power which is arround 200-300 melee dmg. That will effect everything u do for that couple of sec while u are in Battle Stance. One Rend did arround 6.5k dmg total on a dummy after i did it with taunka + sts atk power proc, only 5k dmg without any proc (I use itemisation that provides me with 7k passive atk power without any buff, imagine how bad the dmg would be if u have less atk power than i do). What if u swith back to Berserk Stance and u miss ur offhand hit, that Rend loses all its value and ****s u over more than anything. How i see it, using rend in ur rotation requires perfect RNG and timeing to keep it up without losing DPS instead of gaining, and the DPS gain is basicly irelevant. So, simply dont use it. If u show me a recount in which ur rend actualy did increase ur total dps, than i will reconsider it. So far i just dont see it working at all...
The problem is that ppl dont know how armor penetration and armor reduction work, everyone think that once u reach 100% arp sunders become useless so they dont use it. I was in a raid with 2 warriors, me beeing the 3rd, and i was the ONLY one doing sunders. I asked for 1 fkin sunder on the pull so we reach 5/5 faster and i didnt even get that... If u are a fury warrior, u have 1 free GCD that wont effect ur DPS AT ALL, right after 2nd BT. If u dont have instant slam proc, use that ****ing Sunder Armor. Stop beeing jews. Even if u cant get it to 5/5 and it ends up beeing 1/5 for 30sec, its still BETTER than doin NOTHING at all. The more phisical DPS u have in raid, the more sunder armor will be valuable.

We have already discussed about this. With the proper stance dancing macro you will stay in Battle Stance only for the time needed to apply Rend on the boss and with the proper addons you can time your white swings in order to not ragestarve as soon as you come back to Berserker Stance. For the last time, I god damn know fury warriors, expecially here on warmane, where almost no guild run with a protection warrior tank, have to stack and keep up Sunder Armor. Still I would not make such a guild drama by seeing that my warrior fury has applied Rend before starting to stack Sunder. It's a god damn game, played in god damn private server which nobody gives a **** about it, stay calm and enjoy your gameplay time. The world will not stop turning just because the boss hasn't got 5 stacks of Sunder Armor.

[Beanlord]

Different people, different ideals.

[Drakantas]

If you are having trouble on progressing trough a raid just because your warrior didn't start to stack sunder armor immediatly than I've got bad news for your guild.

Uh, alright. I don't know how you arrived to this but I guess.

We have already discussed about this. With the proper stance dancing macro you will stay in Battle Stance only for the time needed to apply Rend on the boss and with the proper addons you can time your white swings in order to not ragestarve as soon as you come back to Berserker Stance. For the last time, I god damn know fury warriors, expecially here on warmane, where almost no guild run with a protection warrior tank, have to stack and keep up Sunder Armor. Still I would not make such a guild drama by seeing that my warrior fury has applied Rend before starting to stack Sunder. It's a god damn game, played in god damn private server which nobody gives a **** about it, stay calm and enjoy your gameplay time. The world will not stop turning just because the boss hasn't got 5 stacks of Sunder Armor.

A Conformist, that's what you are.
But first, don't get me wrong as I'm not infuriated, I think a word to describe how I feel with the kind of people I described in my previous message is disappointment. I tried to sound cheerful as to make my message "less rude", maybe that was a bad approach of mine and should've been straight forward.

The sort of playstyle that I personally follow is to get the best of everything that I play, please don't confuse it with dps whoring (which means people neglecting mechanics to boost their damage), this means that I always pursue the best with no excuse whether it's lag or fps issues or being rusty or ignorance because those are the most conformist excuses.

This isn't about making drama, if you get called out for not getting the best out of your class that doesn't mean those people calling you or whoever is getting called out are encouraging drama, it means those people want you to do the best that's within your reach.

Also, if nobody "gave a s**t" then we wouldn't be discussing this because it just wouldn't be worthy, the mere fact that we're here discussing this means that there's people who care. Staying calm doesn't mean we can't address issues or mistakes done by anybody.

Different people, different ideals.

^

[Panofsky]

Uh, alright. I don't know how you arrived to this but I guess.


A Conformist, that's what you are.
But first, don't get me wrong as I'm not infuriated, I think a word to describe how I feel with the kind of people I described in my previous message is disappointment. I tried to sound cheerful as to make my message "less rude", maybe that was a bad approach of mine and should've been straight forward.

The sort of playstyle that I personally follow is to get the best of everything that I play, please don't confuse it with dps whoring (which means people neglecting mechanics to boost their damage), this means that I always pursue the best with no excuse whether it's lag or fps issues or being rusty or ignorance because those are the most conformist excuses.

This isn't about making drama, if you get called out for not getting the best out of your class that doesn't mean those people calling you or whoever is getting called out are encouraging drama, it means those people want you to do the best that's within your reach.

Also, if nobody "gave a s**t" then we wouldn't be discussing this because it just wouldn't be worthy, the mere fact that we're here discussing this means that there's people who care. Staying calm doesn't mean we can't address issues or mistakes done by anybody.


^

Sorry if I put my efforts in other aspects of my life, playing a eight years old game in a private server not being one of them, since I like to do it for the sake of having fun. I really like how you assume to know someone just from the way he describes himself inside a gaming forum. Conformism? You really like to use big words inside this small, virtual reality, where they count for nothing, don't you? I don't need your explanations. I just think you have overreacted with your previous post, that's what I'm discussing about. I may play my class at its full potential but I don't ask other people to do it and I would never pass my gaming time checking if they are doing it. That would be incredibly boring.

[Gnimo]

Sorry if I put my efforts in other aspects of my life, playing a eight years old game in a private server not being one of them, since I like to do it for the sake of having fun. I really like how you assume to know someone just from the way he describes himself inside a gaming forum. Conformism? You really like to use big words inside this small, virtual reality, where they count for nothing, don't you? I don't need your explanations. I just think you have overreacted with your previous post, that's what I'm discussing about. I may play my class at its full potential but I don't ask other people to do it and I would never pass my gaming time checking if they are doing it. That would be incredibly boring.

Than why are u even here if u play the game for fun? Dont bother with forums, focus on other aspects of ur life...

The point on Sunder Armor is not the DPS gain, the point is that some ppl should do a sertain job in raids to make it easyer for others. Ppl here dont do that at all... ****ing Fury Warriors and Retry Paladins will rather force Frost Dks and Fire Mages to switch on LDW and DPS the adds during phase 1. The fact that both warriors and rets shine most when it comes to instant aoe burst on 3 targets, while other classes cant get close to them is ignored only so u can top the recount. Raid is a fkin grp of 10-25 ppl. If u work together its gona be nice and easy, if everyone slacks on **** like Sunder Armor stacking u will lose time and posibly wipe. DPS whoring is real here and that is why i push so much for those Sunder Armor stacks, it wont give ppl 2k dps increase, not even close, but its the matter of principle. But i guess everyone is the smartest guy alive and noone can look in the mirror and notice their own mistakes...

Again, i would LOVE to see a recount with total DPS and the % of dmg ur Rend does so i can finaly shut the **** up and start using Rend myself in order to maximise my dps. I can bet its less than 5% of total dmg done...