I'm talking about all rules possibly being subject to change. This very new rule aswell. Even though Proterean wrote that they have no intend of limiting it further, doesn't mean it won't get limited further, nobody garantees anything. So don't be surprised next time it happens either.
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Member
Edited: October 3, 2020
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Member
Putting the technicalities of donation aside, I have to point out a particular flaw in this reasoning.
You refer to a supposed removal of a 'product or service they purchased'. Which is.... what, exactly?
Let us say that you have donated on 40 accounts for queue-skipping or gear or whatnot. You *are* still able to access all those benefits on each individual account, so what are you basing your refund claim on? As far as I know, there's no 'multiboxer fee' concerned here - it's just something people decide to do themselves, and Warmane plays no part in that decision being made.
Of course, none of this matters because it IS a *donation* at the end of the day, but still.
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Member
Exactly.
It's pretty clear that refunds are out of the question.
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Member
Exactly. The only ones that love these cheaters, are other cheaters. The whole rest of the community is strongly against it, for good reasons.
Be thankful that you are even allowed to 25 instead of whining.
Donations are donations, you didn't "buy" anything, there are no customers here.
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Member
Hilarious that people actually think they are going to get refunds.
"Donations are voluntary and cover the following:
- Dedicated servers, including live, internal and backup servers
- Professional staff and service expenses
- Security expenses, including anti-DoS services
- Development and expansion of website and realm infrastructure
- Maintenance and promotion of Warmane on social and video platforms
- Seasonal tournament prize pools "
You donate on Warmane to support the servers and be rewarded with coins that you can spend on in-game items.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/donate
https://www.warmane.com/policies/refund
https://www.warmane.com/policies/terms
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Member
I really don't see a reason why this is still open. They've already made their choice and clearly don't give a damn. Just lock it up, post it on the front page, add it to the rules, and move on. This forum has become a twitter, and that's just embarassing. I always see people posting with no knowledge of the subject, just hate towards it.
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Member
25 man limit makes no sense though. multiboxing isn't about soloing PVE content. (some might be into that but...)
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Member
The Only Real Problem with the Massive Boxers I see is I had a WG were 3-4 Massive Boxers took up all the Slot on Horde, and there were very few normal players as they couldn't get in because it filled up.
Personally (just a Suggestion/Opinion), would be fair that someone can go past 25 if they pay up, or in other words, get past a Donation Rank of Supporter on each Acct. In other words, they Contributed so much to the Server, I don't get mad when they kill me compared to the ones that never payed a dime.
I'm staying at 5 because that's when you can do Heroics, BGs, and focus on Quality (or Skill) instead of Quanity (Numbers).Edited: October 3, 2020
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Member
This change wasnt made for pve in mind, if you actually read the first replied by the staff member it becomes clear why this change was made.
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Member
Shadow, you're really embarrassing yourself.
Are you going to argue that that "DONATE" button is there for people to show how much they love Warmane?
You log in and you see literally see "STORE" right next to "DONATE". Are you really going to argue that a place where they require a "donation" of 150 Euro to acquire a single item or even much more to complete a character is in fact not a store? Don’t disregard the healthy and active market they have for these items. They just happen to make a LOT of money from "donations" because people want to wish them well with money? Warmane never had any motive in setting this operation up in order to profit? How about the gold squish that ensures they keep getting revenue from gold sales fueled by coin sales? <<Good Move. Everything about Warmane is set up as a business first, not a place for enthusiasts to gather and show their appreciation BUT they do such a great job at BOTH things I have to reiterate: WARMANE I LOVE YOU, I THINK YOU'RE BRILLIANT BUSINESS PEOPLE, EXCUSE THE CAPS, I APPLAUD YOU. BLIZZ NEEDS SOMEONE TO SHOW THEM HOW IT'S DONE. But Shadow, don't act like they're taking donations on the side and this isn't a money making operation. Nothing wrong with making money.
Fact Check, I mentioned it twice. Now twice is a multitude?
I hope you read what I wrote and furthermore understood it and that this is the use of "you" in the sense of a universalization because I am not complaining on my own behalf. I'm not even complaining. I stated before I began that my words were not even a rebuke. Pull out that cambridge dictionary and look that word up if you don't understand it. I am doing what legislators may do in the process of debating the merits and the morals of an idea which may be put into enforceable law. After the law is enacted and the punishments for breaking the law are detailed, then my postulations may become a rebuke. Not before. Everything I said in addressing Warmane was the presentation of ideas and principles for the purpose of review.
You're a super smart money lawyer so you'll understand this: To boil down everything else you said and respond to it, my entire premise is that Warmane runs a business (everyone knows it). Sure they avoid using words like "purchase", and "customer" for legal reasons (If I were them I would NEED to do the same because of lawyers and a legal system that is looking to parasite off anyone they can) but at the end of the day, if you sent them 1000 Euros in order to definitely-not-purchase-gear on their, totally-not-a-store for your 10 shamans, and the next day you wake up to find out that they made a new rule which states you're no longer allowed to play those 10 shamans that you donated for (not because you were showing your love), you WOULD have a problem with it, and if you didn't you'd just be a submissive tool and I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you in that case. If that were the case you'd do anything for them, you'd pay for their bathwater and it wouldn't even need to be authentic! It could be virtual bathwater and you'd be fine.
BOILDOWN: Just because you can get away with something doesn't make it right. Just because a particular audience may be submissive enough to let you get away with anything doesn't mean you should do anything that suits you. I'm asking if Warmane agrees with this set of ethics or if they are going to take the money and run. There may not even be one multiboxer affected by this new rule in the way that I'm detailing within the framework that I gave which you omitted responding to. If not then no big deal, but I'll bet you there are a number of people affected.
Look Shadow, we don't have to be at odds, join me, I'll put you on retainer and call you when I need you. I didn't swoop in here and criticize Warmane, I addressed them with a question supported by a premise which they can either agree with or reject. I'm not even working for myself here, I'm working on principle.
Again, you don’t multibox or you’d know. Make a poll and a bunch of negative people who want to vent their hate will sway the scales. The people who don’t care or who do like multiboxers will not be fairly represented because they simply won’t show up. Forums are predominantly populated by negative, petty people.
I know they can write the rules as they wish, it's their business and I want them to run a tight ship because it’s good for everybody. My concern was that their decisions and business dealings continue to remain ethical. If you make a decision that has consequences to your customers, take care of the customers that it affects. Common decency. If you want to call them benevolent donors you actually have more of an obligation from the standpoint of human decency since these people were coming to your support out of love, not out of personal gain. Are you going to dip on such patrons?
I’ve probably already answered this in my response to Shadow but the point is that if you “donated” that real money for the purpose of acquiring items or services, not for the purpose of showing your love for Warmane, then after this decision which you did nothing to provoke, you are now a disenfranchised customer who ought to be refunded. You didn’t break any rules, your purchase or donation or whatever you want to call it was invalidated unilaterally at no fault of your own.
The fact that you have something to show for it doesn’t help the fact that you didn’t pay money simply to have coins laying around with nothing to spend them on or accounts you cant play because the new rule makes it impossible to play more than a portion at any given moment. Unless you’re just that kind of person who wants to have 100 separate accounts with 75 of them unplayable, you got shafted. If you want to make the argument that some people just like to have variety, well, if you want other characters you can just make them on the same account since the limit is against simultaneously logged accounts. Its less to manage and concentrates perks like heirlooms and contributor rank.
I laid out a simple and fair framework in my premise revolving around account liquidation in order to enable a refund. If you are that guy who likes to have 75 simultaneously unplayable accounts then don’t take the deal, you won’t get your refund. If you want to scale down to 25 then surrender your accounts in exchange for the real currency refund and you’ll stay a happy multiboxing customer farming gold for coin sales which we know are paid with real money. I don’t see a single downside from Warmane’s perspective. And this is something that would be managed through email on a case by case basis, they don’t even have to create a web based system for it. Its not a sweeping change which would affect anyone other than people affected by their rule changes so it doesn’t invalidate their current business model or expose them to liability. Just as Warmane accepted the “donation” in the first place, they can graciously decline and return it and accept the “donor’s” act of contrition in sacrificing their bloatful character presence.
Nope, I’m sorry, but just because you can do a thing doesn’t make it right. If you say it does, withstanding everything I’ve written above, then you are either a tool or you like seeing others being played like tools. Would you take a big “donation” from someone for something they obviously paid for and then make a rule invalidating their “donation” and keep their money afterwards? Come on, be honest. And I don’t expect you to answer if you don’t want to stand out.
Mmmmm, drink that bathwater.
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Member
Exactly, Boxing 40 is fun for about 2-4 weeks and then you get over it. It makes everything in WG harder unless the enemy is very stupid that game and they don't spread out. The bigger the multiboxer the fewer places the faction can be at one time.
Multithreading processors make a lot of sense because they can handle separate tasks simultaneously which is very effective. Ironically, you use a crazy multithreaded processor to multibox huge teams and it turns you effectively into a single core processor on the battlefield. 10-30 is much better for WG than 40 all things being equal including gear. This doesn't mean that on occasions its valid to have a 40m team. By the way, 40+ is a hell of a lot of work. If you don't have gear on them which takes a good while to get, you get shredded by guns and chances are your system performance is kindof marginal. Low framerate, latency, follow drops. Boxers over 40 are rare and don't really serve as much of a threat.
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Moderator
You can make donations and you are rewarded by them with coins. Having to repeat what I said in a different thread like yesterday, donation rewards are a very common practice used to encourage donations. Google it if you have to. You seeing it as a purchase doesn't change what we offer.
That aside, "ability to multibox at will" or anything similar was never a donation reward. You didn't make any donation to be able to multibox, even in your personal picture you didn't "buy" any sort of "multiboxing rights." You got queue skippíng and coins you used to get gear on multiple characters across multiple accounts, and that's all there was to it. Nothing of what the donation rewards themselves provided has been taken or modified in any way, simply a limitation on how many accounts any player can use simultaneously has been applied.
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Member
Can someone just Close it..
Warmane has Spoken and there is no debating it..
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Member
I'm not trying to belabor you by making you repeat anything, but you are causing me to repeat myself. It doesn't seem you're responding to my premise as presented or at all. Perhaps you missed my posts? Allow me to ask you a question in order to make my point:
Obnoxious, are you suggesting that it is ethical for Warmane to accept "donations" from a "donor" who did not "donate" for any reason short of acquiring "rewards" and then make it impossible for them to use those "rewards" as intended at the time of "donation" as a result of a sweeping unilateral decision which was not enacted as punishment for breaking any rules?
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Moderator
I'm not suggesting anything. Straight facts don't need suggesting. Your "intentions" when donating aren't something covered by the donations. If you donate to make use of a bug we later label as exploiting and liable to bans, are you going to want a refund? I guess probably, but I'd have no ethical qualms about that decision.
