WotLK banned for no reason

[kavabonga]

He refused the roll because he didn't want to waste more time.
Did the other three move on with him or stood and waited for you to start a roll/actually rolled?

In your previous post it's unclear how many of the "don't care" players decided to just move on with him. Probably all of them.

But you're probably too self-centered to see the whole picture. It may or may not have been a "his decision vs mine" for a couple seconds. You just took too long to take the initiative and get the three undecided ones on your side (if you even had a chance in the first place. "don't care" is usually just a polite way to say "no/i'll give it half a minute and a braincell to attempt making it work".).

that is, if he doesn’t want to waste time, then that’s fine, but if I don’t want to waste time, then I’m banned? interesting rules

[Morvion]

that is, if he doesn’t want to waste time, then that’s fine, but if I don’t want to waste time, then I’m banned? interesting rules

thats oversimplification.

think of it this way, u were taking a train to a city with other 4 ppl. but u want to take a lil detour/stop/visit other destination while 1 or more ppl just want to get to destination as thats what the train for.

[kavabonga]

thats oversimplification.

think of it this way, u were taking a train to a city with other 4 ppl. but u want to take a lil detour/stop/visit other destination while 1 or more ppl just want to get to destination as thats what the train for.

I was in favor, one was against, three abstained. I offered an honest solution, but he didn’t want it honestly, he only wanted it because it was convenient for him. if he won the roll there would be no question. if two were for the pass, there would be no questions. but it was one against one and I wanted to solve it honestly, but the other one didn’t want to

thats what the train for.

I will agree with you if you prove to me that dungeons exist in order to miss out on half the booty

[angrylol]

You can think and do whatever you want, do rolls and whatever. But if you sit on a rock like a little princess and refuse to continue when it doesn't go you way, you will get a ban for disruption. That is the "truth" hy dungeons exists and etc etc, rules don't care what you personally think.
Simple, crystal clear and perfectly reasonable(in context of rules).

[Morvion]

I was in favor, one was against, three abstained. I offered an honest solution, but he didn’t want it honestly, he only wanted it because it was convenient for him. if he won the roll there would be no question. if two were for the pass, there would be no questions. but it was one against one and I wanted to solve it honestly, but the other one didn’t want to

lets say the ban is bcz the reason u mentioned. that leaves 2 of u, u want the full run and the other guy want to finish the dungeon. u offered a roll, the guy refused and just want to proceed the dungeon.
now, rdf is for instant grouping and for the reward/daily satchel. where u on the other hand, used that rdf with your own personal interest aside from finishing the dungeon.
so, can he refuse your interest? ofc he can.
but can u refuse to finish the dungeon which is everyone's interest? nope.

I will agree with you if you prove to me that dungeons exist in order to miss out on half the booty

i never said that. i said, u were using rdf which is "public" tool instead of forming your own group for your own interest.

[kavabonga]

You can think and do whatever you want, do rolls and whatever. But if you sit on a rock like a little princess and refuse to continue when it doesn't go you way, you will get a ban for disruption. That is the "truth" hy dungeons exists and etc etc, rules don't care what you personally think.
Simple, crystal clear and perfectly reasonable(in context of rules).

so if they disrupt my gamplay its ok and if i disrupt its ban? looks like discrimination. I'm not asking to clear all the mobs in the dungeons (which isn't weird if someone is farming reputation). at least kill all the bosses for which they give emblems of triumph. I’m happy for those who no longer need to farm them, but I went to the dungeon precisely for them. Why should I lose one or more emblems because someone is in a hurry? If you don't have enough time, don't go to the dungeon, it's easy. most of the time everything is fine, I ask people this boss, they say ok and I tell them thank you. but there are stubborn people who cause problems.

As far as I understand, there is no clear interpretation of the concept of disrupting gameplay. that is, I can interpret it in the way that is convenient for me. Therefore, I can write report about everyone who did not go to kill the boss with me, and they will have to be banned. I understand correctly?

[Persivaln]

There is such interpretation, but you won't see it. Reason: so that you don't know boundaries to exploit system.

And yes, in RDF you are one of five players, and if there is no majority of players (3 out of 5) for detour or other side activity, you will follow them or get banned if reported.

[OhieMitzen]

Oversimplified RDF - Priority list:
1. Kill the final boss
2. Kill the necessary bosses to get to the final boss.
3. Kill the necessary trash mobs to get to the final boss and the bosses that are necessary to reach the final boss.

That's what an average RDF is about.

Additional objectives that aren't necessary:
4. Kill additional bosses for whatever reason.
5. Complete achievements.
6. Kill additional trash mobs for whatever reason.

Game disruption came from you wanting to do something from the 4-6. While others (I see your 1-1-3 [If this was OS roll where 3 didn't answer, it would be NO]) wanted to focus on the priorities 1-3 that are necessary. I can imagine you tried to apply pressure with holding your foot down by standing somewhere while others cleared mobs, or something equivalent of not partaking in the clearing of the dungeon.

You can make in-game ticket and ask a GM's view about the situation when 1 wants A, and 2 wants B. Would it be majority priority (demographic decision), or RDF completion priority.

[kavabonga]

Oversimplified RDF - Priority list:
1. Kill the final boss
2. Kill the necessary bosses to get to the final boss.
3. Kill the necessary trash mobs to get to the final boss and the bosses that are necessary to reach the final boss.

That's what an average RDF is about.

Additional objectives that aren't necessary:
4. Kill additional bosses for whatever reason.
5. Complete achievements.
6. Kill additional trash mobs for whatever reason.

Game disruption came from you wanting to do something from the 4-6. While others (I see your 1-1-3 [If this was OS roll where 3 didn't answer, it would be NO]) wanted to focus on the priorities 1-3 that are necessary. I can imagine you tried to apply pressure with holding your foot down by standing somewhere while others cleared mobs, or something equivalent of not partaking in the clearing of the dungeon.

You can make in-game ticket and ask a GM's view about the situation when 1 wants A, and 2 wants B. Would it be majority priority (demographic decision), or RDF completion priority.

Where exactly in the rules is this written? Here is the description of "Disrupting gameplay: Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay. Examples of such are: Resetting NPCs while other players joust with them on Argent Tournament and joining RDF only to idle and refuse to leave on your own to avoid the debuff.". No clarifications regarding bosses, mobs, etc. Accordingly, I can simply run around an empty room and this will be compliance with the rules. refusing to kill a boss can be considered a gameplay violation in the same way as refusing to move on.

As for the situation, I’ll explain it again with an example. there is a party in which there is a blood elf, an undead, a tauren, a troll and an orc. ?he blood elf wants to kill the boss, the undead wants to skip, tauren, troll and orc say "we don't care, decide something". We have two interested parties. the elf offers an honest way to resolve the issue, while the underdog says that he doesn’t want to do that and just needs to do it in a way that benefits him. Why is the issue resolved in favor of the undead if he refuses an honest decision and insists on his own? How is this pressure different from me insisting on my position?

And I still play as a tank and I have leverage, since some parties without a tank will not go further. DPS roles have no rights at all unless they are the only strong DPS in the group.

The game does not provide the opportunity to select the RDF specification such as rep farm, achievements, etc. And it seems quite normal to me, having learned that the goals of the group do not coincide with your goals, to ask them to kick me, so that I do not waste either my time or theirs

[kavabonga]

There is such interpretation, but you won't see it. Reason: so that you don't know boundaries to exploit system.

And yes, in RDF you are one of five players, and if there is no majority of players (3 out of 5) for detour or other side activity, you will follow them or get banned if reported.

Yes, I am one of five players and have equal rights with them. And if three of the group abstained, the issue should not be resolved in favor of one of the disputants, simply because he wanted it so. /roll is a completely acceptable option. You can, of course, consider the option of a duel, but I think this is too much

[OhieMitzen]

Where exactly in the rules is this written? Here is the description of "Disrupting gameplay: Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay. Examples of such are: Resetting NPCs while other players joust with them on Argent Tournament and joining RDF only to idle and refuse to leave on your own to avoid the debuff.". No clarifications regarding bosses, mobs, etc. Accordingly, I can simply run around an empty room and this will be compliance with the rules. refusing to kill a boss can be considered a gameplay violation in the same way as refusing to move on.

Those are some examples of what counts as Disrupting Gameplay.
Listing all things that could be considered "Disrupting Gameplay" would be asinine. "Clever" players would be abusing "it's not listed there" until the thing they did would be listed there. That would only waste everybody's time.

As for the situation, I’ll explain it again with an example. there is a party in which there is a blood elf, an undead, a tauren, a troll and an orc. ?he blood elf wants to kill the boss, the undead wants to skip, tauren, troll and orc say "we don't care, decide something". We have two interested parties. the elf offers an honest way to resolve the issue, while the underdog says that he doesn’t want to do that and just needs to do it in a way that benefits him. Why is the issue resolved in favor of the undead if he refuses an honest decision and insists on his own? How is this pressure different from me insisting on my position?

Undead wants to complete RDF - Which is goal of the RDF, no?
Orc, Tauren and Troll - Undecided, passive, doesn't care, only wants to move.
Blood Elf - Wants to complete extra objective.
Since it's 50:50, I would wager the completion of RDF takes the "priority" over extra objective. It could be different if the vote was 4-1 or 3-2.
It also matters how Blood Elf acted after the 4 others wanted to proceed with the RDF. Was he a crying baby throwing a tantrum, or did he go with the rest of the party?

And I still play as a tank and I have leverage, since some parties without a tank will not go further. DPS roles have no rights at all unless they are the only strong DPS in the group.

Blackmailing others with a role? I see how you feel RDF should be your playing ground, and all should dance according to your whims? You're really are self-centered main character. Color me.. unsurprised and unimpressed.

The game does not provide the opportunity to select the RDF specification such as rep farm, achievements, etc. And it seems quite normal to me, having learned that the goals of the group do not coincide with your goals, to ask them to kick me, so that I do not waste either my time or theirs

Thus if you want to do something specific, make a bloody premade where all agree to rules before utilizing RDF to do it. This is the same for raids, arena and BG's, as long as you follow Warmane's general rules to do it.

[angrylol]

so if they disrupt my gamplay its ok and if i disrupt its ban? looks like discrimination. I'm not asking to clear all the mobs in the dungeons (which isn't weird if someone is farming reputation). at least kill all the bosses for which they give emblems of triumph. I’m happy for those who no longer need to farm them, but I went to the dungeon precisely for them. Why should I lose one or more emblems because someone is in a hurry? If you don't have enough time, don't go to the dungeon, it's easy. most of the time everything is fine, I ask people this boss, they say ok and I tell them thank you. but there are stubborn people who cause problems.

As far as I understand, there is no clear interpretation of the concept of disrupting gameplay. that is, I can interpret it in the way that is convenient for me. Therefore, I can write report about everyone who did not go to kill the boss with me, and they will have to be banned. I understand correctly?

Make your own party and go get all the triumphs, people say this to you some 20 times by now, but it's too hard for you I guess.

If you stand at optional boss and they are refusing to do it and want to advance the dungeon instead, you will be the one ho gets banned, not them.

What will be helpful for you is to act with intention to "finish the dungeon". Then everything will be fine. These useless blankets will not help you, these rules were made for people like you, they are working, as you found out.

[kavabonga]

Those are some examples of what counts as Disrupting Gameplay.
Listing all things that could be considered "Disrupting Gameplay" would be asinine. "Clever" players would be abusing "it's not listed there" until the thing they did would be listed there. That would only waste everybody's time.

This is how legislation works: if something is not prohibited, then it is allowed. If the law does not describe the situation completely, then it can be interpreted in a way that is convenient for me. For example. If the law says that smoking can only be done in designated areas, there must be a description of what constitutes a smoking area. and even here there may be nuances. for example, it is said that a place for smoking is a place equipped with an ashtray. I can carry an ashtray in my pocket and then any place I am is a smoking area. this is just an example

Undead wants to complete RDF - Which is goal of the RDF, no?
Orc, Tauren and Troll - Undecided, passive, doesn't care, only wants to move.
Blood Elf - Wants to complete extra objective.
Since it's 50:50, I would wager the completion of RDF takes the "priority" over extra objective. It could be different if the vote was 4-1 or 3-2.
It also matters how Blood Elf acted after the 4 others wanted to proceed with the RDF. Was he a crying baby throwing a tantrum, or did he go with the rest of the party?

We again return to the fact that in the rules indicated on the forum there is no clear description of how to go to the dungeons and what the goal is there. everyone can have their own goals. Anything written or decided by players is valid only for those who are familiar with it and agree with it. but this is not a law for everyone else. Again an example. If I don't smoke, I don't have the right to prohibit others from smoking. Because not smoking is not a law, but my choice. I can ask them not to smoke, for example, next to me, but ask, not demand. and we can come to a compromise, which was proposed in the form of a /roll.

Blackmailing others with a role? I see how you feel RDF should be your playing ground, and all should dance according to your whims? You're really are self-centered main character. Color me.. unsurprised and unimpressed.

It's not exactly blackmail, it's more of a priority. if the majority says they want to skip, I'll agree. it’s just that most groups don’t ask questions, but follow the tank.

Thus if you want to do something specific, make a bloody premade where all agree to rules before utilizing RDF to do it. This is the same for raids, arena and BG's, as long as you follow Warmane's general rules to do it.

Killing bosses in dungeons is not something specific

[kavabonga]

Make your own party and go get all the triumphs, people say this to you some 20 times by now, but it's too hard for you I guess.

When I want to do something really specific, like unusual achievements, I will form my own group

If you stand at optional boss and they are refusing to do it and want to advance the dungeon instead, you will be the one ho gets banned, not them.

One agreed, one refused. and the one who refused does not want to resolve the dispute in an honest way

What will be helpful for you is to act with intention to "finish the dungeon". Then everything will be fine. These useless blankets will not help you, these rules were made for people like you, they are working, as you found out.

How it be helpful for me if i miss emblems? If these rules are created by the players but not the administration, then they have no force and are simply recommendations, not mandatory, nothing more

[angrylol]

When I want to do something really specific, like unusual achievements, I will form my own group

Then where is the problem, make your group specifically to kill all bosses.

One agreed, one refused. and the one who refused does not want to resolve the dispute in an honest way

Which means no agreement was made, it defaults to "lets finish the dungeon asap".

How it be helpful for me if i miss emblems? If these rules are created by the players but not the administration, then they have no force and are simply recommendations, not mandatory, nothing more

Administration set the rule "joining RDF only to idle and refuse to leave on your own to avoid the debuff.". Don't idle around, with your big brain ideas. Easy.

Btw, most efficient way to farm eot is to finish as many RDF's as quickly as possible, skipping all what can be skipped.

Oh and in your story, 1 guy went to continue towards completing dungeon and you went towards some optional boss. What did the other 3 do? bet they went with the first guy, but you needed written statement from them or something.