Exactly the topic I had in mind.
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The Lightbringer
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Forum Veteran
Alright, but that just proving my point.
I also asked the GMs before would it be considered ninja looting or not. Don't remember the GM's name but he told me if the dude's not a rogue (that actually needs lockboxes to raise the skill) he has no right to need them.
Yours said he doesn't consider it since everyone can open them. People don't actually "need" the lockboxes, they want them to sell the items or disenchant the items inside it. And that's pretty much what the greed button is for. If they CAN open the box through profession or third party, he still doesn't "need" the lockbox. There's no exact "need" for them unless you're a rogue raising lockpicking skill so I think his PoV is wrong.
But that just raises the question of how strictly should the rules be enforced and how clear they are/aren't.
Some GMs will and some won't act on that report.
As I said, I think it's bad that rules lack that sort of clarity on what's exactly allowed and what isn't.
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Forum Veteran
I'll be completely honest here - I wholeheartedly agree with you, that rules not being enforced equally or lacking "that sort of clarity", as you put it, is a bad practice, and that could lead to some controversies among the playerbase or between the players and the staff. If exceptions are to be made, I'd also prefer if they were clarified in the respective threads:
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598
On theory, we could make similar suggestions and bring them to the attention of the staff,
Spoiler:Show
but I am sceptical that they would be accepted for the simple reason that such cases aren't urgent. I can't even imagine how many and what sort of tasks each staff member has to work on. Maybe they have a lot of things to worry about, and they don't want to be bothered with marginal and non-urgent cases. Those are just my guesses. Regardless, some GMs might be more lenient towards small rule violations, but others wouldn't feel troubled to enforce the rules and to sanction the responsible player(s). So, if a person gets off the hook once, they can be punished on the second occasion, which would make them think whether they should continue breaking the rules or play it safe. In a way, the bans issued by the more stricter GMs as well as the punishments for the 2nd and 3rd violations correct the rest. I'll quite myself from another thread:
So, while I also agree that rules not being enforced equally does indeed make it look like a bad practice, the fact that most GMs punish violators, people are discouraged to risk just so they get a small-time profit.
Regarding lockboxes:
Believe me, I also agree on that part. Regardless if I have BS to use the keys or I would rely on another player to open the boxes for me, I don't really need the things that are inside. The loot is random, which may or may not be suitable for my class. There's also a chance for a JC recipe to drop, which not everyone has. As a BS-er, I don't raise my profciency in using keys whenever I open lockboxes. So, undoubtedly these rewards are mostly there to give us a financial profit, which should be GREEDED (as you said).
But OhieMitzen said something interesting:
Ok, imagine for a second a rogue, who has already leveled his lockpicking skill to the max. At that point, he too doesn't need the lockbox anymore. So, Ohie's explanation sounds more logical - it's not worth to invest time and resources to check something, in order to verify if it's a case of ninja looting or not.
[edit] Also, there's another thing to think about. Forbidding anyone but rogues to "need" on the lockboxes would look kinda unfair to some players. One class gets some privileges, while the rest is left high and dry - that doesn't sound like equality.Edited: May 28, 2021
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The Lightbringer
And with the combination of..
.. and..
.. It would be best to remove the option to need lockboxes, if that's something the staff can do, as lockboxes don't really fall into NEED roll requirements. Rogues can level their lockpicking with various footlockers and junkboxes.
Waste of resources to go through who could need a lockbox. If the need option from lockboxes can't be removed, we'd need either official ruling if they can be needed, or ignore/deny lockbox ninja reports.
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Forum Veteran
So many people with such wrong interpretation of the term "ninjalooting" regarding lockboxes.
"as lockboxes don't really fall into NEED roll requirements" - this is all the explanation you need, provided you understand what lockboxes are - RNG containers that give uncommon or rare items or materials. Both the items and materials are either used for disenchanting or used for profs/sale, but you NEVER know what EXACTLY is in the box up until the point of actually OPENING it, which requires the box to be IN SOMEONE'S HANDS. The bosses themselves are RNG containers, but when they die everyone gets equal chance to see what dropped and what class it's suitable for. So no, lockboxes ARE NOT subject to NEED roll, just because you're a rogue or have blacksmithing.
On the subject of MP5 not being suitable for caster dps - well, technically low-geared caster dps could get some mana sustain from it, but the priority should always be the healer(if he needs the item):
- what happens when dps runs out of mana - they stop dpsing for a while or they switch to wands/autoattacks/autoshots
- what happens when a healer runs out of mana - tank may die, boss goes shopping for victims
Now, if a bunch of my friends decide to make an overgeared icc10 group to boost my 2k gs mage for example, ofc i'm gonna take the mp5 items no questions asked - NOBODY IN THE PARTICULAR GROUP NEEDS THEM, a.k.a I'm not STEALING items from anyone. And freaking obviously, this is a game, of course we can simply sort looting among ourselves if someone needs let's say ONE item for their offspec - it's not the end of the world if my boostee mage doesn't get all the loot from the freaking raid.
You need SOLID evidence whether someone actually NINJALOOTED an item or they legit needed an upgrade and the reporter is just being a d-bag(6.5k boomie reports a lowbie for needing on rare boe wrist when they were wearing a gray one for example). A dps caster Needing on an intellect MP5 item doesn't necessarily mean they wanna ninja it. Inspect the player first.
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Forum Veteran
I think it would be the latter case, and here's why:
But first, I'd like to give a small backstory. Roughly two years ago, I got scammed (the responsible player removed a digit of his gold amount, so I got less gold at the end). I had read the rules back then, I knew that I couldn't demand a restoration of my items from the GMs, that's why I contacted the head GM and made the following suggestion: "Ok, could we increase the timer of the trade window before it closes, so that we can still make a screenshot in the worst case scenario?" Here's Aldtharios' response:
Yes, he isn't a game developer, he isn't responsible for the coding, but he implied that implementing any changes to the game codes might bring more harm than good. After playing for some time on this server, I figured he could have been right. After all, I got screwed once, but that made me more cautious in my following months of playing wow. In a way, the issue fixed itself (the problem with the trade window closing too quickly - I started waiting for the opposite player and clicking on the "accept" button more slowly).
My point is, that suggesting removing the "NEED" option from lockboxes might be rejected. Bugs always occur, and this could lead to some. I am not sure about the latter thing, since I don't know anything about coding. However, I know one thing - at least in my daily heroics, lockboxes drop suuuuuuuuuuuper rarely. I haven't monitored it, but I can say that once in every 3 or 4 games a lockbox drops. That sounds like something not worth working on - the cases of ninja looting (be it for OS or not knowing your class's own stats) occur more commonly, and those deserve some kind of ruling. Don't get me wrong, personally I wouldn't say NO to disabling the "NEED" option for the lockboxes, but devs need to do it for every single lockbox out there:
https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Lockbox
which are 12 (I'm excluding the "Tiny Titanium Lockboxes" from this number, because according to wowwiki it only drops from Maria Chase's reward bag). Ok, a suggestion could be made to tweak the group loot window for the TBC and VVrath lockboxes, which are 4, but a risk of causing a bug somewhere else is high. You said it yourself, it's not something worth investing time and resources.
Same thing goes for the "official ruling". In my games, lockboxes drop rarely, which isn't something that would require extra attention.
At least, that's my opinion. If you or someone else wants to make this suggestion in the "Suggestion and Changes" subcategory, be my guest. If something does change regarding those items, I'll accept it. The profit they provide is too small to my taste, so I wouldn't care what the staff's opinion will be at the end.Edited: May 28, 2021
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