About Future Coinshop Items

[lexblack]

I saw that you added current tier items (Tier 7) in the coin shop.
Now i want to ask you some questions and i hope that i will get some answers.

When you announced the server you made this statement:
"Limited coin store:
- Items available will be 1 Tier below items obtainable in-game until all content is released in all modes"

Adding Tier 7 items to coin shop is against that statement.
So my guess was that you will add Tier 7 items to coin shop when Ulduar (Tier 8) comes, but it seems that i was wrong. You put Pre-raid gear (ilvl 200) and some Naxx 10-Man items which both of them are considered to be Tier 7.

I see that you decided to go with the "ilvl" instead of the "Tier"
I assume that you will go with the "ilvl" instead of the 'Tier" when Ulduar comes.
So i want some clarifications about Ulduar tier items (Tier 8).
The lootable of Ulduar items goes like this:

Ulduar 10-Man - 219ilvl
Ulduar 10-Man Hardmodes - 226ilvl Armor and 232ilvl Weapons.
Ulduar 25-Man - 226ivl Armor and 232ilvl Weapons
Ulduar 25-Man Hardmodes 239ilvl
Algalon is considered a Hardmode in both 10 and 25 mans.

When Ulduar comes, what exactly are you going to put at the coin shop?
Are you going to put only 219ilvl items?
Are you going to put both 219 and 226 items just because 239 is the highest ilvl item available?
Are you going to put 232 weapons?
Are you going to put Hardmode items from the 10-Man just because its 226 ilvl?

You see there is a mess here and some clarifications would be nice.


This post is not here to create drama or bash the server,
i just want some answers to those questions from a Mod or a Dev if its possible.

[Ekunn]

Dear players and developers,

After browsing the various topics regarding issues with the marketplace and the items it provides, I have three concerns that I wish to share with you:

First and foremost, it has come to my attention that the marketplace offers items that were previously not in the game during retail. There are items that did not exist at all, such as the Savage and Hateful PvP weapons (only Deadly items of the same variant did exist), and there are items on the marketplace that were not available at the point in the game, such as Argent Tournament items and trinkets from Trial of the Champion (most of them have been removed, however, but I can still see trinkets such as Tears of the Vanquished).

Another concern is the pricing of the items on the marketplace. I recall in the "Market Place Information" post on the same forums as I post this thread, that, for example, the best two-handed melee weapon available would cost 113 coins:

However, the two-handed axes of highest itemlevel that are available, the two-handed Hateful axe (which, as previously mentioned, did not exist in the retail version of the game), and the Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver from the heroic version of Halls of Lightning are both set at a price of 54 coins each - the same goes for all other two-handed melee of the same itemlevel, as an example.

A final concern is related to the fact that you lowered the available iltemevel of items on the marketplace due to the fact that best-in-slot items would be obtainable. It is a possiblity that if your intentions are to release itemlevel 264 items through the marketplace as content providing itemlevel 277/itemlevel 284 items is defeated, that best-in-slot items through the marketplace will be purchasable. This is an issue sprouting already with the release of Ulduar, where several items provided through 10-man hardmodes are superior to items from 25-man Ulduar (sometimes even to those provided from hardmodes) - and these are items of the same itemlevel as the ones hailing from normal mode Ulduar on 25-man difficulty. The same applies to a large amount of items from 10-man Trial of the Grand Crusader, as well as from hardmodes in Icecrown Citadel on 10-man difficulty. Perhaps a solution that could be considered is to only releasing items an actual tier below what has been defeated. That is, for example, the availability of tier 7-quality items when tier 8 content has been defeated, et cetera. Ultimately, I plead for you to consider removing the possibility of obtaining best-in-slot items through real currency purchase.

The most kind regards,
[A]Ekunn

*In regards to my first concern, I will proceed to making a list of all the items that can be found on the marketplace, that were not available on retail*:

One-handed axes
Savage Gladiator's Cleaver, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Chopper, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Hacker, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Waraxe, 35 Coins
Teldrassil Protector, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Axe of the Sen'jin Protector, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Cleaver, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Hacker, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Chopper, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Waraxe, 47 Coins

Two-handed axes
Savage Gladiator's Decapitator, 41 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Decapitator, 54 Coins

Bows
Savage Gladiator's Longbow, 35 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Longbow, 47 Coins

Guns
Savage Gladiator's Rifle, 35 Coins
Blunderbuss of Khaz Modan, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Sen'jin Beakblade Longrifle, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Rifle, 47 Coins

One-handed maces
Savage Gladiator's Bonecracker, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Pummeler, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Gavel, 35 Coins
Ironforge Smasher, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Grimhorn Crusher, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Pummeler, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Bonecracker, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Gavel, 47 Coins

Two-handed maces
Savage Gladiator's Bonegrinder, 41 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Bonegrinder, 54 Coins

Polearms
Savage Gladiator's Pike, 41 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Pike, 54 Coins

One-handed swords
Savage Gladiator's Quickblade, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Slicer, 35 Coins
Gnomeregan Bonechopper, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Blade of the Keening Banshee, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Slicer, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Quickblade, 47 Coins

Two-handed swords
Savage Gladiator's Greatsword, 41 Coins
Claymore of the Prophet, 54 Coins Argent Tournament
Greatsword of the Sin'dorei, 54 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Greatsword, 54 Coins

Staves
Savage Gladiator's War Staff, 41 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Focus Staff, 41 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Battle Staff, 41 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Energy Staff, 41 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Staff, 41 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's War Staff, 54 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Focus Staff, 54 Coins
Silvery Sylvan Stave, 54 Coins Argent Tournament
Staff of Feral Furies, 54 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Battle Staff, 54 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Energy Staff, 54 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Staff, 54 Coins

Fist Weapons
Savage Gladiator's Right Ripper, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Left Render, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Left Ripper, 35 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Right Ripper, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Left Render, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Left Ripper, 47 Coins

Daggers
Savage Gladiator's Mutilator, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Shanker, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Shiv, 35 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Spellblade, 35 Coins
Dagger of the Rising Moon, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Dagger of Lunar Purity, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Scalpel of the Royal Apothecary, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Spinal Destroyer, 47 Coins Argent Tournament
Hateful Gladiator's Shanker, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Shiv, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Mutilator, 47 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Spellblade, 47 Coins

Thrown weapons
Savage Gladiator's War Edge, 30 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's War Edge, 40 Coins

Crossbows
Savage Gladiator's Heavy Crossbow, 35 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Heavy Crossbow, 47 Coins

Wands
Savage Gladiator's Touch of Defeat, 28 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Baton of Light, 28 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Piercing Touch, 28 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Touch of Defeat, 38 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Baton of Light, 38 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Piercing Touch, 38 Coins

Trinkets
Tears of the Vanquished, 45 Coins Trial of the Champion

Held in off-hand
Savage Gladiator's Endgame, 32 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Reprieve, 32 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Grimoire, 32 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Endgame, 42 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Reprieve, 42 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Grimoire, 42 Coins

Shields
Savage Gladiator's Shield Wall, 32 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Barrier, 32 Coins
Savage Gladiator's Redoubt, 32 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Shield Wall, 42 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Barrier, 42 Coins
Hateful Gladiator's Redoubt, 42 Coins

[Obnoxious]

For starters, I merged these two threads which were about the same fundamental thing.

I got in contact with Proterean for him to give a more official reply, but he's unable to come give one right now. He will do so later. For the time being he asked me to inform two thing:

- we pay attention to more than simple, raw "item level" when deciding what goes in the Marketplace; we will make sure that what we release there isn't the best item overall that you can get in the game; and

- ToC trinkets will be removed.

[Ekunn]

Dear Obnoxious,

Thanks for noticing my post and reading it. However, I don't see why it is a necessity to merge these two threads, as I feel as though there are several topics in my thread that broach upon further issues than what is accounted for in the original post of the thread that mine has been merged with. Things, which I feel also need more attention, which is not necessarily given by being a mere reply to an existing thread. That was not my intention when I authored the topic, at least.

Kind regards,
[A]Ekunn

[Obnoxious]

Dear Obnoxious,

Thanks for noticing my post and reading it. However, I don't see why it is a necessity to merge these two threads, as I feel as though there are several topics in my thread that broach upon further issues than what is accounted for in the original post of the thread that mine has been merged with. Things, which I feel also need more attention, which is not necessarily given by being a mere reply to an existing thread. That was not my intention when I authored the topic, at least.

Kind regards,
[A]Ekunn

Both are about "concerns about the future of the Marketplace." There's no need for two threads on the same basic thing, as I said above. Having different concerns about the same thing doesn't warrants a new thread, and vBulletin handles thread merges by keeping the one made first as the "original." You got beaten by a few minutes, hence yours became a reply.

[Ekunn]

Both are about "concerns about the future of the Marketplace." There's no need for two threads on the same basic thing, as I said above. Having different concerns about the same thing doesn't warrants a new thread, and vBulletin handles thread merges by keeping the one made first as the "original." You got beaten by a few minutes, hence yours became a reply.

Hi again,

Is there then a possibility of you shining some light on all of the different issues provided by both threads? Or must we wait for a statement from higher powers? Your reasoning as to why threads were merged does seem a tad shallow. I didn't realise that we are dependent on time in order to be properly heard. Never-the-less, I'm happy that you replied.

[linkoynn]

What happend with 1 tier below obtainable ? t7.5 is still t7 and yet t7 can be bought in shop, also trinkets like darkmoon are current BiS and still in shop ? Im ok with everything like offset pieces but trinkets that are current BiS and tier sets should have been kept away from the shop untill ulduar.
theres also unobtainable brewfest trinkets, maybe wait untill we actually have a chance of obtaining them ? :D

[Obnoxious]

Hi again,

Is there then a possibility of you shining some light on all of the different issues provided by both threads? Or must we wait for a statement from higher powers? Your reasoning as to why threads were merged does seem a tad shallow. I didn't realise that we are dependent on time in order to be properly heard. Never-the-less, I'm happy that you replied.

You will have to wait for Proterean to be available to give a lengthier reply, as I already said in my first post in this thread.
You're dependent on time for which order vBulletin organizes merged threads. You don't need to be "unique" with your very own thread to be properly heard, though.

[Ekunn]

You will have to wait for Proterean to be available to give a lengthier reply, as I already said in my first post in this thread.
You're dependent on time for which order vBulletin organizes merged threads. You don't need to be "unique" with your very own thread to be properly heard, though.

It doesn't quite feel that way. So much for vBulletin, though!

[Proterean]

There will be another thread coming up very very soon discussing the funding incentives that elaborate a lot on this.

We do want to address a few things here in thread. The way we released the gear last night was according to the realm designed and has been done since launch but we believe that so far gear was not a big factor in the entire scope of the realm and hence not really noticed. There's an exact difference between tiers in item levels and that's how we released gear so far. It can't work like that in WoTLK due to fact that some items are better than others despite item level.

We will respect the design choices of the realm and for example 213 gear should be released once Ulduar is cleared. This should clear it up for most.

As for items that weren't available on retail, it's intended. It makes no difference, it is also weaker than what you can obtain in the game.

Also, I would like to remind that Warmane is a high expense project with 50+ employees that make it what it is, and wouldn't exist without it's contributors. We are trying to make it attractive whilst also keeping in mind the unavoidable finance factor.

Items that are not meant to be in the game like Argent Tournament and ToC will be removed at earliest convenience.

[Ekunn]

There will be another thread coming up very very soon discussing the funding incentives that elaborate a lot on this.

We do want to address a few things here in thread. The way we released the gear last night was according to the realm designed and has been done since launch but we believe that so far gear was not a big factor in the entire scope of the realm and hence not really noticed. There's an exact difference between tiers in item levels and that's how we released gear so far. It can't work like that in WoTLK due to fact that some items are better than others despite item level.

We will respect the design choices of the realm and for example 213 gear should be released once Ulduar is cleared. This should clear it up for most.

As for items that weren't available on retail, it's intended. It makes no difference, it is also weaker than what you can obtain in the game.

Also, I would like to remind that Warmane is a high expense project with 50+ employees that make it what it is, and wouldn't exist without it's contributors. We are trying to make it attractive whilst also keeping in mind the unavoidable finance factor.

Items that are not meant to be in the game like Argent Tournament and ToC will be removed at earliest convenience.

Thank you for the reply, Proterean. This is a great response to most of the issues accounted for in this thread. However, I can not help but feel that items such as the Hateful weapons provide an advantage at this point in the game, particularly due to the fact that they're superior to what most people have at this point (same damage with added resilience), that they're superior to what else is available in the marketplace, and mostly due to the fact that the the only way of obtaining them is through the marketplace. Also, is there any word on the cost of items on the marketplace, which I discussed in my post (which is now reply #1 in this very thread).

Thank you in advance!
[A]Ekunn

[Proterean]

Thank you for the reply, Proterean. This is a great response to most of the issues accounted for in this thread. However, I can not help but feel that items such as the Hateful weapons provide an advantage at this point in the game, particularly due to the fact that they're superior to what most people have at this point (same damage with added resilience), that they're superior to what else is available in the marketplace, and mostly due to the fact that the the only way of obtaining them is through the marketplace. Also, is there any word on the cost of items on the marketplace, which I discussed in my post (which is now reply #1 in this very thread).

Thank you in advance!
[A]Ekunn

Costs will be slightly adjusted like we did when we moved from Vanilla to TBC, we are still maintaining our decision to make the costs higher than on other realms.

[Ekunn]

Costs will be slightly adjusted like we did when we moved from Vanilla to TBC, we are still maintaining our decision to make the costs higher than on other realms.

Since you avoided the topic that was just discussed, I'm just pointing out that having the Hateful (not really the Savage) weapons available is a significant pay-to-win solution right now."Slightly" adjusted doesn't sound right considering that your intent was to price certain items at 113 coins, and that the prices of items in equivalence to those currently cost less than half of that. Am I being wrong?

Kind regards!

[Proterean]

Since you avoided the topic that was just discussed, I'm just pointing out that having the Hateful (not really the Savage) weapons available is a significant pay-to-win solution right now."Slightly" adjusted doesn't sound right considering that your intent was to price certain items at 113 coins, and that the prices of items in equivalence to those currently cost less than half of that. Am I being wrong?

More information on that will follow very soon alomhside other things. Prices will remain very high, just as not as high as predicted at first, several hundred percent higher than on other realms.

[lexblack]

Thanks for you answer Proterean, most of the questions of both topics got answered but some are not. I'm sure that in your upcoming thread you will answer everything with detail and i'm looking forward to read it.
I hope that you will find a way to make the coin shop work without having a big impact at the current end game content and ofc help you maintain the server costs!