Hi , we had some suggestions to change the common PVE LEADDER + incoming T5 configuration , hopefully competent people will think about it and try to find some compliment.
Ideas for changing the ladder board:
1.Modify the ladder with boss kill time so that after a given phase is over the time is locked and cannot be bypassed.
2.Add a ladder with a category like "progression",where it will show which guild cleared a given boss/raid first (basically create a ranking)
3.Create a raid history for guilds aka when a guild is opened on the armor pages there will be a box like "raid history" and it will be possible to see previous raids. (Not big priority)
This way we would like to keep a healthy competitive environment for guilds.
We probably won't be lying if we say that this server is configured to be as easy as possible for every type of player, casual or hardcore.
So if the whole PVE is supposed to be this easy, let's at least make something where we can create competition and have at least some enticement for the better guilds to be a bit more active and have some kind of "reward pie".
Ideas for changing the incoming T5 content :
- Add Ogril,Netherwing and Shatari Skyguard Reputation
- Add Enginnering heads
- Add rest of rare gems recipes (spell hit/haste gems)
- Add the possibility of something like a separate "heroic" difficulty for raids,where for example the dmg from a boss would give double and the HP of the boss would also have double the increase,where unlike a "normal" raid it would drop 1 extra item from the loot table from each boss.
The upcoming T5 according to the follow 2.1 patch won't bring basically anything other than the opening of SSC + TK.
-There won't be much to do on the servers this way and people will lose interest (start raid logging/expansion elsewhere).
-Reputations like Ogrila,Netherwing and Shatari Skyguard will give players some reason to be active and will not lose interest from the player side.
-According to your following enginnering goggles are coming from 2.1 patch (Black temple patch),but here is the problem,that these eng goggles from black temple are totally useless and will have no further use,until the enhanced goggles come in SWP.
-Heroic difficulty will also bring more competition to the server and raids will be enjoyed by both casual players (on normal mode) and semi-hc/hc guilds on heroic mode.
Even without adding item to the loot table,we just wanna enjoy raids in a different way than killing a boss in 1 minute and finishing the raid in an hour and a half.
Thank you for listening,i hope you take something from this and try to cater to casual and semi-hc/HC players as well.
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Member
Changes with PVE Ladder + upcoming T5
Edited: January 26, 2025
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Member
Your perspective is biased though. These are special accommodations for a small group of players. They don't consider the server as a whole.
Players come to TBC for the experience and nostalgia. The game difficulty is set up to make the content available to more players. Not everyone thinks it's easy, not everyone has played TBC 50 times, not everyone gets bored so easily. You can't change something to your liking without breaking it for someone else. Challenging content actually is a server killer.
Keep in mind also that this isn't Classic. They're emulating the original game patches. So the requests for content being released sooner for xyz reasons wasn't how the original game actually played out. It's just what you want so your T5 raid experience can be a certain way, but actually items released later was a form of catch up loot and was relevant to players that continued to play the full content instead of raid logging.
PvE ladder doesn't need to change to favor a couple guilds. And solidifying rankings actually degrades competition and activity. It's an added incentive to replay old content and beat records. If you want to maintain your record then you will have to continue playing.
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Member
Challenging content is not a server killer. What are you talking about? Most pservers in history have been buffed content and have had huge player bases. This just seems like some weird idea that has come out since classic wow launched and now for some reason everyone just thinks easier content=better. Also original wow disagrees, the content for its time in every expac was very hard for the player bases. Yet the game did nothing but grow and grow and grow. I think lots of older players now days just are used to being able to RMT for everything and have everything be able to be killed while wearing diapers and also act like they are the 99% of the server, which is again another new thing recently ever since Asmongold said this and now all the casual players just take it as truth and absolute gospel. When most players I run into on here meme about how ez the content is and would like it buffed. Also I would be down with a harder version of the raid without any bonus loot or whatever. It would just be nice to have a harder version of the content to make it more enjoyable. I don't see how that would at all kill the game or ruin the experience for the casual player base.
Not that I think this would ever happen but I am just saying in a hypothetical world it would be nice. But for some reason it's always the dad gamers who are the first ones to come here and just state a ton of "facts" out of their *** and just **** all over something someone asks for that wouldn't effect them at all just because they don't like non casual players or something.
Before someone says too btw no I don't even know this dude or are we in the same guild. I don't agree with every take he has but I think some are interesting. He's basically just asking for some features that were on WCL which no one complained about on classic. I just think this "only casuals pov matters" and the stats pulled out of their asses is getting old. And on this server specifically it seems like there is this like casual toxicness where nothing is ever casual enough and everything needs nerfed and anything mentioned that isn't designed specifically for and to be casual is bad and should be **** on. Hell someone said normal ramps is too hard and they should be able to pull 8 mobs at a time and aoe it down and because they couldn't do so that the devs are "catering to the hardcore player base" like come on man...
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Member
You don't remember original TBC everyone getting stuck on T5 for weeks and every week showing up to missing players? KT at the time wasn't killable. Blizzard learned some things when players didn't want to pay just to wipe for hours week after week.
The way it works is obviously server launches at a peak then it declines the rest of the expansion. At different intervals players can't move forward without a raid spot or a guild that raids at their convenience. And as guilds move into later content, players can no longer participate in the earlier raids. So they're stuck. On top of that when content is too challenging and time consuming, guilds will leave altogether or deteriorate. We saw it last year in Vanilla, guilds leaving in AQ40 because they didn't want to deal with Naxx. Then everyone else without a raid spot or guild couldn't clear anything except ZG or AQ20. Result is very low server population. Blizzard changed content in future expansions to curb this issue. TBC and Vanilla did not do it very well which is why they would modify it and why things got nerfed and why incentives were added later on.
And you're mistaken in labeling players as casual/semi-hc/hc and assuming that's a level of skill. The best players on the server very likely are not all in these hardcore guilds. Serious WoW players many times will play multiple expansions at once and choose to invest different amounts of energy where they play. With retail, Cata, anniversary and SoD etc. happening not everyone is putting all their eggs in this basket. And frankly a lot of those players don't care about killing a boss fast on this realm, they just hang out once a week and have fun then go find a different challenge elsewhere.
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Member
i see a lot of people complaining that the content is too easy and yet, almost all raid groups require you to be geared and experienced. if it's so easy, why not take people without exp and/or undergeared people with you? this would make it more challenging and at the same time help the server population by preventing people to fall behind too much and giving them the chance to experience content they might have never done before. if you only take people who have done the same content for years it's no surprise that it ends up being easy.
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Member
You try to say something that doesnt make any sense at all :D
ANYWAY we dont need to talk about buffing actual normal mode,to go both sides its should be just easier to make 1 more "heroic" mode for these raids so people and guild may choose if they will going normal or heroic mode :) and obviously make rankings separated for normal and heroic mode.
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Member
You make game difficult. You make player base go bye bye. Pretty simple.
This is a challenge with TBC because the dungeons were designed to be more difficult. And then raids didn't have much diversity. Fixing these issues requires changing the actual game and experience. You can't remove or change mechanics out of dungeons or you destroy the game. You can't add or change mechanics in raids or you destroy the game.
That's important because when you request a "heroic" mode it isn't actually heroic. You're wanting a special accommodation to have a game mode with increased damage and boss health which supposedly has no rewards except name recognition on the website for your ego. With that end it serves no purpose or incentive at all for the server. You want to add rewards or prestige to it and you're adding custom content that changes the original game. That isn't the focus of Onyxia, quite the opposite.
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Member
I am not in one of the top guilds of the server, but I don't see why everyone is so triggered by this post.
Honestly, the raid are embarrassingly easy at this point (reduced bosses HP, adds that deal no damage, ecc) and I feel players that want more challenging content. (or a way to compete in such content)
I am not sure wheter an Heroic mode is the solution, but a ladder revamp might be as it does not hurt anyone and give the more skilled players one more reason to play.
Actually the special accomodation is this iterarion of Onyxia, in which everything is heavily nerfed, and having no challenging content will cause a drop in population in the long run for sure.
Hopefully SSC and TK will be closer to their original versions than what wechave now.
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Member
The conditions were set before the launch of the realm. It would be pretty silly for someone to play on the realm knowing those conditions and then later requesting the conditions change just because you didn't like them.
These players can get a realm first achievement that announces to the server. And they do get a PvE ladder with kill times and a point ranking system. I think they're doing just fine.
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Member
Ok,you pretend like we live in 2009 and there is another XYZ tbc projects to play :D
I can see many words here how people will leaving if content is "harder",well i know the right opo. My friends start quiting after few IDs,just because they dont like this configuration. You dont need 5-6 healers,2 healers is pretty enough,all you need is pop all CDs and spam your buttons for 1 minute and hope you dont die before boss. GG EZ WP
However i cant see any negativities how adding heroic mode will effect any casual players.Basically there will be 1 more mode for each raid to play.
If you casual,you can go normal mode but for some guilds if they lf challenge they can go for HC mode. Nothing what should have impact for player base.
And if you speak about original game,we dont even follow original tbc game from 2007. We dont even follow raid configuration as pre-nerf,nerf and post nerf.
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Member
I'll repeat differently; WoW is built on an incentive and reward system. If you offered a hard mode without a reward nobody would play it. And there's zero motivation to even put time into developing something like that. If you even suggested a reward then it undermines the whole point of setting the server as post nerf and changes the game.
So my answer is the same. You agreed to the terms of the server when you chose to play here. The settings are post nerf. Any change to that would need a seriously well constructed argument besides "it's too easy for me".
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Member
How do you expect guilds to stay around for so long when the content is made so easy, not to mention the time between phases is a joke. Most guilds will clear this within the first night/week and then they will be stuck farming for another 3-4 months before BT comes out. At least make the content slightly challenging so there is a sense of progression.
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Member
How is this at all a competitive thing? Kill times? Kill times are a joke thats why everyone hated P1 in classic because that was the only form of "competition" And server first on here doesnt feel nearly as rewarding because all the raids can be cleared easily by raids full of nose pickers and diaper wearers. Especially with T4/T5 because you can start in SSC or TK and clear one for server first while some dad guild starts on the other one and can clear it before you even have a chance to enter and gets that server first simply because the content is too ez. Thats what happened with us in T4 we got gruul SF but simply couldnt get maggy too because other guilds started there first. The only real option is to make 2 full raid groups which is lame af. And Also I have heard wayyyyyyy more players complain about the content being too easy and saying they are just gonna quite and go to sod or classic etc because its not fun. I dont understand this idea of hard content kills servers when some of the most popular servers had buffed content and when retail was in its prime the hardest content wasnt cleared by most the players and was challenging for the players back then. It just sounds like dad gamers who want to act like everyone thinks like them or claim they do so they dont lose their content they can just afk through and clear in 15 min.
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Member
Reality bro is it's a 3.3.5 client with those values on it. Modifying the raids to match pre-nerf values and mechanics is a lot of work. And I just don't think it was the intention to invest that much into it.
As a result I don't think it did attract a highly competitive player base or even if players could do it they just don't care to. Just better to accept it as it is and move to the next place that offers such an environment.
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Member
Not many players on here care about "competitive pve". You can go to blizz classic and upload parses to your heart's content
phase length is fine, why rush WOTLK content when Warmane offers multiple wotlk servers already? Enjoy tbc or don't. I didn't play much of the vanilla phase because it didn't interest me, but I didn't demand faster phases on the forum lol
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