Open World PvP and How To Deal With It

[Obnoxious]

What I mean is that we both agree about the names of those servers however with names aside, the original wow servers did in-fact have open world pvp.

It had the same open world PvP as Normal/PvE/current retail servers have: optional. At no point it was said PvE servers had zero PvP, just that claiming PvP servers where that is forced on everyone without a choice is "the essence of WoW" is false. The "essence of WoW" was in choosing if you wanted to PvP or not.

[Skoobydoo]

just that claiming PvP servers where that is forced on everyone without a choice is "the essence of WoW" is false. The "essence of WoW" was in choosing if you wanted to PvP or not.

Clearly most people think PVP servers are the way the game is suppose to be and the prove for that is that all Warmane/Molten and 99.9% of all other existing private servers are PVP.

[Obnoxious]

Clearly most people think PVP servers are the way the game is suppose to be and the prove for that is that all Warmane/Molten and 99.9% of all other existing private servers are PVP.

"All are servers are this way, there's no option available, and the high populated ones are already PvP and would kill PvE attempts, so that proves it."
Yeah... no.

[Kazukar]

It had the same open world PvP as Normal/PvE/current retail servers have: optional. At no point it was said PvE servers had zero PvP, just that claiming PvP servers where that is forced on everyone without a choice is "the essence of WoW" is false. The "essence of WoW" was in choosing if you wanted to PvP or not.

And you are completely true about that. Original servers had the open world pvp but you still had to turn pvp on.

[Skoobydoo]

"All are servers are this way, there's no option available, and the high populated ones are already PvP and would kill PvE attempts, so that proves it."
Yeah... no.

Please do explain to me then why all servers are going PVP, why Outland release as PVP not PVE and why servers who have both options have so much higher population on their PVP realm? Why most people always pick PVP?

[Obnoxious]

Please do explain to me then why all servers are going PVP, why Outland release as PVP not PVE and why servers who have both options have so much higher population on their PVP realm? Why people always pick PVP one?

"Why all servers are going PvP": successful ones (for various reasons, not for being PvP) are that, which created a mentality that only PvP ones can be successful;

"Why Ourland released as PvP": all our servers have always been PvP, we just kept on the same trend;

"Why servers with both have higher PvP population": see first answer, plus what's in what you quoted ("high populated ones are already PvP and would kill PvE attempts").

[Skoobydoo]

"Why all servers are going PvP": successful ones (for various reasons, not for being PvP) are that, which created a mentality that only PvP ones can be successful;

"Why Ourland released as PvP": all our servers have always been PvP, we just kept on the same trend;

"Why servers with both have higher PvP population": see first answer, plus what's in what you quoted ("high populated ones are already PvP and would kill PvE attempts").

Well i will have to disagree with you, the fact players always prefer PVP servers is a prove that most people thing PVP is the way WOW is suppose to be, or at least old WOW. So far i have seen many example the support that claim and zero examples against it. If you can provide any examples of why PVE is or should be the way to play WOW please to.

.edited : I am not saying PVE realms cant be successful, i am saying the vast majority of players prefer PVP one.

[Obnoxious]

Well i will have to disagree with you, the fact players always prefer PVP servers is a prove that most people thing PVP is the way WOW is suppose to be, or at least old WOW. So far i have seen many example the support that claim and zero examples against it. If you can provide any examples of why PVE is or should be the way to play WOW please to.

I already did: WoW was a PvE game with optional PvP (that's how it started, not sure how you can say "old WoW" is supposed to be PvP) and it's going back to that, having all players together, but each playing the way the prefer. It's Blizzard who says how the game is supposed to be after all.

[Skoobydoo]

I already did: WoW was a PvE game with optional PvP (that's how it started, not sure how you can say "old WoW" is supposed to be PvP) and it's going back to that, having all players together, but each playing the way the prefer. It's Blizzard who says how the game is supposed to be after all.

That's such a surface level thing to say. Don't you think the fact they added PVP realms and that most players prefer them say something? And i never said wow is suppose to be PVP, i said most players think PVP is the way to go and the numbers on private servers at least prove that.

Blizzard change the way realms work in BFA because old system was not working anymore with Crossrealm, to say the game is going back to what it suppose to be is so not true.It don't matter if you are on PVE realm if you party and transfer to PVP realm you will be force to PVP and people was transferring constantly for many reasons, all this make it so the old system become pointless.

Having PVE and PVP realms is a good thing because people have the option to play the way they want. Having all on PVE realms where you can flag yourself is not having option to play the way you want, because people who want to do open world PVP cannot do it unless other person agree. To balance that in BFA they decided to give people with warmode on bonuses. And all this completely change the way World PVP work in way that is completely different then the one we had in past 14 years in this game.

[Obnoxious]

That's such a surface level thing to say. Don't you think the fact they added PVP realms and that most players prefer them say something? And i never said wow is suppose to be PVP, i said most players think PVP is the way to go and the numbers on private servers at least prove that.

Yes, I think the fact they added PvP servers meant they listened to some people complaining about it, and now recognized it was better the way it was the beginning instead. Private servers don't prove anything about that, for reasons already listed.

Blizzard change the way realms work in BFA because old system was not working anymore with Crossrealm, to say the game is going back to what it suppose to be is so not true.It don't matter if you are on PVE realm if you party and transfer to PVP realm you will be force to PVP and people was transferring constantly for many reasons, all this make it so the old system become pointless.

I have no idea what you're even trying to say here. Only that you believe the change they made was because of cross-servers, as if changing the whole way the game works was easier than simply setting better guidelines on cross-server.

Having PVE and PVP realms is a good thing because people have the option to play the way they want. Having all on PVE realms where you can flag yourself is not having option to play the way you want, because people who want to do open world PVP cannot do it unless other person agree. To balance that in BFA they decided to give people with warmode on bonuses. And all this completely change the way World PVP work in way that is completely different then the one we had in past 14 years in this game.

And here you show the basic PvP mentality that, in essence, is what leads to this sort of thread as a consequence: "if people can choose and not let me have my way, I'll complain" (not the first word that comes to mind, no). Yes, flagging yourself is having the option to play how you want against other people who want to play that way too. You simply lost the option of forcing your way to play on others who don't want to play your way.

That's how the game was originally, that's how it turned again on retail, and the only people who have an issue with it are the ones who can't handle not being able to attack people not interested in PvP, being "limited" to others who also want PvP. If your "PvP" has to rely so much on attacking the weak and the uninterested/unwilling, to the point that those getting to opt-out "ruins" it, the issue isn't on those people or in the game catering to both sides on the same server, but elsewhere, somewhere much closer.

[Skoobydoo]

That's how the game was originally, that's how it turned again on retail, and the only people who have an issue with it are the ones who can't handle not being able to attack people not interested in PvP, being "limited" to others who also want PvP. If your "PvP" has to rely so much on attacking the weak and the uninterested/unwilling, to the point that those getting to opt-out "ruins" it, the issue isn't on those people or in the game catering to both sides on the same server, but elsewhere, somewhere much closer.

The game was only PVE realms for few months, it had PVP realms for 14 years...this to me make it clear how is suppose to be. Yes it turn out like this on retail in BFA and many other changes was made, we all see the end result of this many changes is that people argue what was worst expansion BFA or WOD and many people prefer WOD actually, so good job on blizzard and what they are doing.

Its not about attacking weak players, its about the sense of danger you have in open world while questing or doing anything else and you not always fight other weaker or stronger people, sometimes you fight people that was same level gear as you.

And here you show the basic PvP mentality that, in essence, is what leads to this sort of thread as a consequence: "if people can choose and not let me have my way, I'll complain" (not the first word that comes to mind, no).

You know what we have never seen? People complain that they cant attack other players. You know why? Because they don't roll on PVE servers, or at least they use to have the option. You know who always complain and whine? People like you who don't wanna PVP. There is plenty of threads in this forum that prove that. You talk so much about people having option, since you care that much about that why don't you try convince Warmane to open PVE realm? IN past 8-9 years on molten/warmane there was never been PVE realm, even that at some point we had 4 difference realms on same expansion nerver there was been any PVE one. I wonder why is that?

[Obnoxious]

The game was only PVE realms for few months, it had PVP realms for 14 years...this to me make it clear how is suppose to be. Yes it turn out like this on retail in BFA and many other changes was made, we all see the end result of this many changes is that people argue what was worst expansion BFA or WOD and many people prefer WOD actually, so good job on blizzard and what they are doing.

Yes, the result we all see is clear: people are complaining about too little content, too much grind, bugs - not a single PvPer crying that their fun is ruined because they can't PvP anymore.

Its not about attacking weak players, its about the sense of danger you have in open world while questing or doing anything else and you not always fight other weaker or stronger people, sometimes you fight people that was same level gear as you.

Have that "sense of pixel danger" against other people wanting the same. PvE servers or current retail don't say "don't PvP," they say "PvP among PvPers."

You know what we have never seen? People complain that they cant attack other players. You know why? Because they don't roll on PVE servers, or at least they use to have the option. You know who always complain and whine? People like you who don't wanna PVP. There is plenty of threads in this forum that prove that. You talk so much about people having option, since you care that much about that why don't you try convince Warmane to open PVE realm? IN past 8-9 years on molten/warmane there was never been PVE realm, even that at some point we had 4 difference realms on same expansion nerver there was been any PVE one. I wonder why is that?

Your constant attempts to invert the values are interesting, if nothing new. People complain because they don't want to be forced into something they don't want; not being forced into something you don't want, i.e. consent, is the basis of having fun, not the other way around. The default position isn't having fun at the expense of those who don't want your fun, it's having fun with like-minded people and leave the ones who aren't like-minded alone.

You say you never saw people complain because they don't play on PvE servers? Easy to say that when there's none available anyways, and even you add an "or at least they use to have the option," implying that now they/you would complain. Ironically, as I already said, retail PvPers seem to be doing it just fine fighting only others who want to PvP as well. Sure, there are those who are crying about not being able to attack anyone and everyone at will, but I don't consider those PvPers.

Why I don't try to convince for a PvE server to be created? Because I know the Administration isn't interested, plus, as I've posted in threads on the subject, it's too late. The high populations are already focused on the PvP ones, and a PvE would fail because of that, not out of being PvE.

[Patchwreck]

One thing that was missed is that 3 seconds after the first gank was the first gank thread.

And the two shall forever be intertwined.

[Lheon7]

the fact players always prefer PVP servers is a prove that most people thing PVP is the way WOW is suppose to be

Considering servers with same expansion, I strongly think that people choose already populated realms in the first place, and high rates as second one, when it comes to reasons. Server type is not really a factor.
Me, myself, joined Warmane mainly because of high population, and just deal with the forced-pvp, even if I don't really like it.

[Skoobydoo]

Yes, the result we all see is clear: people are complaining about too little content, too much grind, bugs - not a single PvPer crying that their fun is ruined because they can't PvP anymore.

You was the one that said BFA make PVE as it suppose to be, i am simple pointing out this is arguable the worst expansion WOW ever had. To give me BFA as example of anything is so lame.

Have that "sense of pixel danger" against other people wanting the same. PvE servers or current retail don't say "don't PvP," they say "PvP among PvPers."

Well i already understood you have no sense of world pvp or game immersion so "pixel danger" is something you will never understand. Current PvE servers say " level with island expedition or arena then go afk warfronts till you get boring are unsub like most other players"

Your constant attempts to invert the values are interesting, if nothing new. People complain because they don't want to be forced into something they don't want; not being forced into something you don't want, i.e. consent, is the basis of having fun, not the other way around. The default position isn't having fun at the expense of those who don't want your fun, it's having fun with like-minded people and leave the ones who aren't like-minded alone.

Then keep PVE and PVP server separated so everyone can play the way they want, worked perfectly fine over the years. Why you have to take away from Wpvp players to keep happy PVE player who was just as happy before on his PvE realm? Now obviously this is way more complex topic when we talk about BFA because there is many systems that interact with this specific game mechanics like sharding and warmode, but if we talk about older WOW expansions where this systems dont exist having 2 different realms worked perfect for both type of players. But you cant do that on private servers because the PVE realm will die as we have seen it happen before on other places, and the PVE players come to the PVP realm and start whine about it. I am sorry that there is so few of you that they cant support their own realm......

You say you never saw people complain because they don't play on PvE servers? Easy to say that when there's none available anyways, and even you add an "or at least they use to have the option," implying that now they/you would complain. Ironically, as I already said, retail PvPers seem to be doing it just fine fighting only others who want to PvP as well. Sure, there are those who are crying about not being able to attack anyone and everyone at will, but I don't consider those PvPers.

Well the fact there is no PVE server option and there is almost no one asking for one speak for itself. Lightshope had PVE relam, it had 10 times less population then their PVP realm and its shut down now.
And no one is doing fine on BFA, there is so many problems with this expansion that people don't even know where to start. I was in WPvp guild few years ago checked their youtube channel few weeks ago last video is from BFA and its named "Our best days are gone"... yes it sound like they are doing very well.

Why I don't try to convince for a PvE server to be created? Because I know the Administration isn't interested, plus, as I've posted in threads on the subject, it's too late. The high populations are already focused on the PvP ones, and a PvE would fail because of that, not out of being PvE.

Ofc they are not interested, because there is no community for that.