Forum Ban for ninja looting

[Experinka]

English is not my native language, so I apologize in advance for the wording.
Just yesterday I was banned for the so-called "ninja-looting". I have never heard of this term, since I have been playing this game not so long ago. After reading the available articles, I figured out this definition, but there is a question. Why is the thing that I got in the undersell is untouchable. Why can I fart it only to the person who finished second in the roll after me. (this wording is written in the project rules). Why I, being the owner of this thing, can not transfer it to someone else from our party.
The very mechanics of the game allows me to receive some items, as well as transfer them to other party members with whom I was in the dungeon for several hours. It turns out that the rules contradict the very possibilities of the game.
Perhaps this is contrary to the principles of morality, but if the game randomly distributes things, depending on which button the user pressed, then the administration should not interfere in such processes. I still don’t know for what reason I was banned, I didn’t seem to abuse it, but this incident happened.
Unfortunately, no one has yet answered my appeal request.


Help me figure this out.

[Anyone0]

Why I, being the owner of this thing, can not transfer it to someone else from our party.

If you press "Need", it means you need the item yourself. You are not supposed to press "Need" just to give the item to someone else.

Perhaps this is contrary to the principles of morality, but if the game randomly distributes things, depending on which button the user pressed, then the administration should not interfere in such processes.

After reading the rules, the user should decide if he is allowed to press "Need" on a specific item.

I still don’t know for what reason I was banned, I didn’t seem to abuse it, but this incident happened.
Unfortunately, no one has yet answered my appeal request.

Ban appeal tickets are lowest priority and usually take about a week. And they most likely won't tell you what exactly you did.

[Experinka]

Nobody argues that you should press "I need it" only if you really need it. However, the game functionally allows players to press this button. And the question is why the administration should interfere with this gameplay, ban players if they probably wanted to get a thing not with the aim of dressing, but with the aim of selling or something else. Again, I got a thing by clicking "I need it", let's say I wanted to wear it, but another player asked me to give it to him, why should I refuse-? As for me, this is all purely gameplay and should be on the conscience of the players themselves.

[Thorbjorn]

Nobody argues that you should press "I need it" only if you really need it.

Wrong, most people argue that you should click need only when you do need it.

And the question is why the administration should interfere with this gameplay, ban players if they probably wanted to get a thing not with the aim of dressing, but with the aim of selling or something else.

Exactly because a lot of people did what you did and a lot of people were tired of players stealing other people's loot so they can sell it or use it for OS.

[NordicShade]

It's simple, you can "need" item only if it is your upgrade for your currently role.
For sell items on ah or vendor, roll greed as for your off spec too.
And don't "need" items for someone else.

[Experinka]

You apparently do not understand what the "game mechanics" are, and what are the rules from outside.
Once upon a time I got a thing that specifically I pressed "I'm not doing it", or "I won't refuse", I don't remember exactly, but when a teammate asked me to "give it to him," I did not refuse and passed it on by exchange. I don't see anything illegal in this. If they can be banned for this, then the rules of the project directly contradict the possibilities of the game.

[Experinka]

You talk about things for someone else, but when a player receives loot, he has the right to dispose of it as he pleases. Of course, this can be abused, but the rules of the project, which immediately give for such a ban for 5 days, are absolutely biased. Any such loot readout can be resolved through dialogue.

[Thorbjorn]

You can complain all you like. The rules are there. You can follow them or you can enjoy your time off. What you think is or should be is irrelevant since it's not your server.
Friendly reminder to read this: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037

[Experinka]

Thanks anyway.

[Mitzen]

Nobody argues that you should press "I need it" only if you really need it. However, the game functionally allows players to press this button. And the question is why the administration should interfere with this gameplay, ban players if they probably wanted to get a thing not with the aim of dressing, but with the aim of selling or something else. Again, I got a thing by clicking "I need it", let's say I wanted to wear it, but another player asked me to give it to him, why should I refuse-? As for me, this is all purely gameplay and should be on the conscience of the players themselves.

Welcome to world with consequences! You're not directly allowed to do everything that the game itself allows you to do. You have an option to need, but the game also offers you the options to greed, and to disenchant. You happened to choose need.

I'll give you an extreme example, to put emphasis on your actions and consequences:
You have a gun, and a bullet. Some random stranger who you don't know, stands before you. Do you shoot him or not?

Yes, it's a game, where your actions happened, but remember, it's you in reality, who acted on it.

[angrylol]

I completely agree that players should deal with this themselves, that's besides the point. Look at it this way - be glad that these rules are here, they protect you from turning into Dalaran Sewer Rat playing with other Rats because every decent player will not want anything to do with you.

[Kovachut]

Sorry for bringing this topic one more time. I just want to clarify some things:

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=325598

What qualifies as ninja?

- Master Looter taking items that were not reserved or giving them to players that did not win, unless it's 2nd highest roll when winner had no use for the item (rogue rolling on caster trinket).
- Changing looting rules during the raid, after it has started.
Example: You joined a raid that was being advertised as one with no reserved items and after first boss raid leader says that he reserves item x from last boss.
- Player exploiting game bug to bypass master loot. In such cases it is best if master looter would fill report that shows player leaving the raid and empty loot window.
- Player need rolling (group loot) on items which he cannot even use.
- In RDF needing on items for OS (unless everyone in party is explictly fine with this).
- Need rolling for other players to have 2 or more roll chances at one item.
- Kicking players from raid for no reason, especially before distributing loot from boss kill that they participated in.

Let's recap, in RDF:

- Selecting the NEED option is only allowed, when someone wants to obtain an item, that offers an upgrade for their main spec.
- If a person wants to obtain an item for their off-spec or they probably want to sell it or use it for whatever else reason (transmog), then the only available option is GREED.
- It's strictly forbidden to roll NEED on an item with the sole purpose to give it to someone else at the end.

Exceptions:
- The person in question asks his teammates for permission to roll NEED on items they don't really require. If ALL other party members agree, the person should take a screenshot of the chat (just in case someone ends up being a troll) and they can select the NEED roll in peace.
- A person, who has selected NEED for an item due to it offering an upgrade for their main spec, can change their mind and give it to someone else at the end.

Spoiler: Show

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=423792
Obnoxious explains how there aren't any rules for the cases, when players change their mind when rolling on certain items.

- Even though some items could increase the person's dps, it's also forbidden for frost dks to roll NEED on two-handed weapons and, I think, the same applies to arms warriors too. Rdps isn't allowed to roll NEED on 5mp items, even though the extra mana regen could prove to be useful in fights.

Spoiler: Show

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....9049&styleid=6

- You are allowed to form your own groups and set the rules for loot distribution there.
- Lockboxes can be "need"-ed.

Spoiler: Show

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=414029

If you are still wondering why things are like this, then it's like Thorbjorn said:

Exactly because a lot of people did what you did and a lot of people were tired of players stealing other people's loot so they can sell it or use it for OS.

and also this:

Because of increasing number of ninjas in raids we decided to step forward and enforce new rules. From now on players caught in act of ninja during a raid/dungeon run will be banned.

[Obnoxious]

Obnoxious explains how there aren't any rules for the cases, when players change their mind when rolling on certain items.

No, I was talking about the specific case of that thread, which was someone deciding to put an item up for auction instead of equipping it, for some reason. On both those cases the person who won the item is still making use of it themselves. Rolling Need and then giving it to someone else is covered in the rules you quoted. It's unfair to others in the group as it essentially gives a person double the chances to win something, and I don't see making it explicit they are rolling for someone else to be the focus. I suppose some GMs could consider giving an item that is an actual upgrade for you to someone else who also needs it to be fine, but others might not, so it's a grey area and it might be a gamble whether you will get a ban for that or not based on who tends to the ticket.

[Kovachut]

No, I was talking about the specific case of that thread, which was someone deciding to put an item up for auction instead of equipping it, for some reason. On both those cases the person who won the item is still making use of it themselves. Rolling Need and then giving it to someone else is covered in the rules you quoted. It's unfair to others in the group as it essentially gives a person double the chances to win something, and I don't see making it explicit they are rolling for someone else to be the focus. I suppose some GMs could consider giving an item that is an actual upgrade for you to someone else who also needs it to be fine, but others might not, so it's a grey area and it might be a gamble whether you will get a ban for that or not based on who tends to the ticket.

I was aware, that you were sharing your opinion on a different case. My point is, that if a person has use of an item (it offers them a legit upgrade for their main spec), but later they find out, that they don't actually need it that much, that player could give it to someone else.

For example: Yesterday I joined rdf hc and the game put me in Drak'tharon Keep. After some deliberation, we decided to kill the dino boss and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=37723 dropped. Since I played as a feral kitty and my trinkets were http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43829 and http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=43838 back then, I had legit reasons to roll NEED. However, I wasn't the only one, who needed the Fragment. There was also a fury warrior in the group. So, we both selected NEED, I won the item and that was that. The other player was very kind to me, but after the dungeon he told me, that he tried to farm the trinket for the 4th time. I felt sorry for them and offered them to give them the item. They declined and the "dispute" was over.

I can probably make a fictional example. Imagine, how a player is in a dungeon, they win an item fair and square, but later on they win a better one (maybe in the same dungeon or somewhere else) and they offer another player from the first party group to give them the aforementioned item. OR, the person might think, that they'd prefer to buy a BoE item from the auction house, which would offer a tremendous increase to their gs, so they give up the rolled one. I don't think it's impossible to happen, cuz if a person plays on Icecrown or on Lordearon, they can find 264 ilvl craftable gear pieces on the ah pretty easily.

Those were the cases I had in mind, when I wrote that post. If those still break your rules, then idunno. I agree, that if a person has no usage of an item and they roll NEED for it just to give it to someone else, it doesn't matter if they explained their reason in chat or were silent about it. Those cases should be punished.

[Experinka]

Thanks to all who responded. Let me remind you that the main goal of this topic was to figure out what ninja-looting is. For me as a beginner, this term was unknown. You were all clearly and clearly expressed, I did not understand everything because of the language barrier, but I caught the basics. And I completely agree that loot should be distributed in the dungeons correctly, I just like you do not understand the people who take all the things, I press the button "I need it", but there is some personal resentment in this from experienced players. The game has functional rules that allow players to regulate the flow of loot.
In this situation, the administration is trying to protect the players who become victims of people who constantly press "I need this. And this is right. However, they chose the completely wrong methods of regulation. Not knowing this rule, I often gave things to the co-players who asked me about it, if this or that thing accidentally fell to me. As a beginner, I did not know that this should not be done, and I still believe that the players themselves should regulate the flow of loot. The administration has chosen too strict rules regarding this aspect of the gameplay. Because of which, unknowingly, they can new players will suffer, the flow of which on their servers has clearly increased.
Due to the same language barrier, not everyone can read the rules. Not everyone watches the forum, and the game itself does not say anything about these "rules". I ask everyone to be objective in this matter, because too much negativity has poured out from the community.